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how to improve PID output response?

Created by: arain at: 2/11/2014 9:26 PM (8 Replies)

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2/11/2014 9:26 PM	Rate (0)
arain Posts: 61 Rating: (0)	hello experts. i am synchronizing 2 motor by using CPU313C. one is master and 2nd one is slave.slave have to follow the speed of master. i mounted 2 encoders on both motors. master motor encoder's output after converting into meter/min is set as FB41 PID setpoint (SP_in) and slave motor encoder's output after converting into meter/min set as FB41 PID process variable (PV-in).i tuned PID and it works well when master is running at fix speed, but problem start when master motor speed increases, slave motor's speed doest not match . i am attaching snapshot of PID output. in figure. i my application i can not afford any delay between master and slave speeds . Attachment pid response.JPG (291 Downloads)
arain Posts: 61 Rating: (0)	Last edited by: arain at: 2/11/2014 9:29 PM
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2/12/2014 7:48 AM	Rate (0)
IBN-Service Posts: 8946 Rating: (1000)	arain ...i tuned PID and it works well when master is running at fix speed, but problem start when master motor speed increases, slave motor's speed doest not match . i am attaching snapshot of PID output. in figure. i my application i can not afford any delay between master and slave speeds . First step will be to increase the gain (P) in small steps. What are the P, I, D parametervalues? What it the power of the motors in kW? Other solution: Is it possible to synchronice the both inverters using an encodercable? (electronic gearbox)
IBN-Service Posts: 8946 Rating: (1000)
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2/13/2014 9:20 AM	Rate (0)
arain Posts: 61 Rating: (0)	hello IBN-Service value of P is 1 and I value is 3. motor powe = 7.8 Kw. master motor control is not in my hand, i am measuring master speed by using encoder. for other solution. boht drives are not same so it not possible that master drive set it output in pulses form. leze 9328 is my slave drive which accept input in pulses (terminal X9), so is it possible that i connect encoder on master motor and output pulses of encoder feed into leze servo inveter(X9). and i adjust the ratio by using gear box parameter.?
arain Posts: 61 Rating: (0)
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2/13/2014 2:46 PM	Rate (0)
Ste39 Posts: 4620 Rating: (710)	arain for other solution. boht drives are not same so it not possible that master drive set it output in pulses form. leze 9328 is my slave drive which accept input in pulses (terminal X9), so is it possible that i connect encoder on master motor and output pulses of encoder feed into leze servo inveter(X9). and i adjust the ratio by using gear box parameter.? you can do it, I remember a similar application with an encoder for speed reference that went into the X9 slave of a Lenze 9324, then you should change the parameters C0032 (FCODE Gearbox) and C0033 (Gearbox denom), depending on your application. The C0254 is important (Vp phase-CTRL) always depends on the application and motors you are using.
Ste39 Posts: 4620 Rating: (710)
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2/14/2014 7:43 AM	Rate (0)
IBN-Service Posts: 8946 Rating: (1000)	arain hello IBN-Service value of P is 1 and I value is 3. motor powe = 7.8 Kw. master motor control is not in my hand, i am measuring master speed by using encoder. Try (be carefully!) an I value from 0.2 arain for other solution. boht drives are not same so it not possible that master drive set it output in pulses form. leze 9328 is my slave drive which accept input in pulses (terminal X9), so is it possible that i connect encoder on master motor and output pulses of encoder feed into leze servo inveter(X9). and i adjust the ratio by using gear box parameter.? As Ste39 already said, it is possible. Make sure, that encodertype (TTL/HTL, Resolution) is allowed. Also, you can use an encoderconverter / swicth to generate the encodersignals that are necessary.
IBN-Service Posts: 8946 Rating: (1000)
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This contribution was helpful to 1 thankful Users Ste39

2/16/2014 4:49 PM	Rate (0)
arain Posts: 61 Rating: (0)	hello IBN-Service Ste39 i used TTL encoder of 1000 pulses on X9 connector of slave drive and mount encoder on master motor. setparameter C0032 (FCODE Gearbox) and C0033 (Gearbox denom) parameter. i measure the RPM of master motor ON C0539. to troubleshoot this i run master motor on fix speed and but the slave setpoint vary continuously it is not running of fix speed.then i run master motor on fix speed and didnot run slave motor and measure the RPM on C0539 and setpoint C0050 in lenze , it display fix value of RPM after that i also run slave motor value he C0539 start change continuoulsy (becomes random value ) beacause of that setpoint of slave motor change continuoulsy..
arain Posts: 61 Rating: (0)
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2/17/2014 6:05 AM	Rate (0)
Ste39 Posts: 4620 Rating: (710)	Hello arain, what kind of motor do you have? if it is an asynchronous motor lower the C0254, to factory is set to 0.40, try putting 0.02.
Ste39 Posts: 4620 Rating: (710)
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2/17/2014 6:27 AM	Rate (0)
arain Posts: 61 Rating: (0)	thx for reply. its synchronous motor.(2000 RPM)
arain Posts: 61 Rating: (0)
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2/25/2014 6:59 PM	Rate (0)
metwally mustafa Silver Member Joined: 10/10/2010 Last visit: 7/5/2025 Posts: 309 Rating: (15)	what about using one servo drive for the slave motor but reading two encoders signals reading the encoder signal of the master motor and considered it as a set point for the PID block digram inside the drive . and also reading the encoder signal of the slave motor and considered it as a processing value of the PID block inside the drive. another solution you can use a resolver feedback on the master motor and connect it to the 9300 lenze servo inverter the 9300 servo imverter has an output called ( smiulated encoder output ) you can used this output for the slaves i think you need a controller which reading the two signals of the encoders ( servo drive) because it is hard to tune the PID manually as i think you need an technological CPU

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