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Hardware key for application

Created by: fabric at: 9/25/2009 10:14 AM (12 Replies)

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9/25/2009 10:14 AM	Rate (0)
fabric Posts: 5 Rating: (0)	Hi, I use WinCC version 5 and 6. Now a customer ask to me for protect the WinCC project with an hardware protection key. He will that the appliction run just on one PC, indipendent of how many WinCC licence you have. Any idea? Best regards.
fabric Posts: 5 Rating: (0)
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9/25/2009 10:48 AM	Rate (0)
ranr_mids Bronze Member Joined: 12/5/2005 Last visit: 8/9/2021 Posts: 289 Rating: (19)	This seems a very odd thing for the customer to ask. The licence is a software lock, not a hardware lock. If they only want WinCC running on one PC, they should only buy one licence - anything else is just a waste of their money. I'm not sure it's even possible (I know our WinCC Flexible licences come on USB memory, but you still have to 'install' them to HD)

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9/25/2009 3:54 PM	Rate (0)
fabric Posts: 5 Rating: (0)	> If they only want WinCC running on one PC, > they should only buy one licence... Maybe my question is not understandable. Sorry for my english. I look for a solution for protect the WinCC project, not the WinCC software, that have his software key. So I ask for any suggestion about how to use some hardware key (like www.matrixlock.de, www.safenet-inc.com, etc.) with WinCC. In fact, as you know, C script in WinCC are not compiled and is very simple to open and remove function call to hardware key. Tank you for any idea. Bye.
fabric Posts: 5 Rating: (0)
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9/25/2009 4:04 PM	Rate (0)
AppeltaartD Experienced Member Joined: 9/11/2009 Last visit: 5/11/2023 Posts: 76 Rating: (6)	Let me get this straight, What you are looking for is a solution for the file on HD that is the WinCC project to make it copy protected, so no one can copy or adjust it without the right autherization. Is this correct? If the computer that runs the WinCC app is only ment to do that, you could always disable all function keys to leave runtime and set your pc so that WinCC runtime starts on start-up. Ofcourse this isn't all the secure but maybe as an extra option.

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9/25/2009 4:31 PM	Rate (0)
fabric Posts: 5 Rating: (0)	> ...so no one can copy or adjust it without > the right autherization. Is this correct? My goal is to running the project just on one PC at a time, the one with the hardware dongle connected, like some ancien AutoCAD hardware parallel port key, for example. So the customer can reinstall the software or have a backup PC, but not use the same project for a second machine. Normally, for hardware protection, with the key (or dongle) you buy also a library (static or DLL) with the functions to call for check if the key is present. If I put some of this function call in a WinCC C script, anyone is able to open for remove it, because is not compiled code. Any comment? Bye.
fabric Posts: 5 Rating: (0)
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9/25/2009 5:15 PM	Rate (0)
ranr_mids Bronze Member Joined: 12/5/2005 Last visit: 8/9/2021 Posts: 289 Rating: (19)	Ok... so they want to stop people from running the project anywhere else. Is it possible to put critical files on encrypted USB memory, so the files cannot be removed / copied, and the project cannot run without it? Or, place the whole project on the encrypted USB memory. I'm just speculating. I've never tried to lock a project before...

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9/25/2009 6:34 PM	Rate (0)
Phantom75 Posts: 2661 Rating: (279)	Hi fabric, One option worth considering is Login via Chipcard. See following FAQ and also the attachment: How can you login via a chip card? Regards Attachment ChipCard.pdf (226 Downloads)
Phantom75 Posts: 2661 Rating: (279)
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9/25/2009 10:26 PM	Rate (0)
CBo Gold Member Joined: 4/5/2006 Last visit: 7/30/2025 Posts: 917 Rating: (63)	Hi fabric, it seems integrator want to be sure customer use one copy only (not customer want it), instead seem integrator want to be sure about competitors.Doesn't matter the reason, this is just politics, but we have to talk about politics . Siemens is not interested in HW keys (i don't remeber last time i seen HW keys in Siemens application), in other hands i don't think it's possible to use HW key directly from Siemens products. But from thirdy part, maybe. I know there are some company build configurable HW key to protect file & application but we have to remeber we have the keep complete project onthe plant station. In other hands, it'spossible protect files, but everyone who have WinCC engineering on his PC can open project in configuration mode (because WinCC is not crypted program). In conlusion the only way to useWinCC in Runtime mode over one station only could be use HW key where it'spossible store some data, then create protected script to check for that data on the key. Conclusion: everyone can open project in configured mode, but no possible to run it without key. I never did it...so, i don't know if it will work . Not sure what happen when use the Excel tool to export/import WinCC project ( ????) just hope my opinion can help Regards
	Last edited by: CBo at: 9/25/2009 10:33 PM
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9/28/2009 11:58 AM	Rate (0)
fabric Posts: 5 Rating: (0)	> One option worth considering is Login via Chipcard... Have you read my question? Login via Chipcard is totally off topic. The topic is how to protect the know how of a project developed in WinCC. How to prevent that cutomer or competitor can implement another plant with the WinCC project downloaded from an existent one.
fabric Posts: 5 Rating: (0)
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9/28/2009 12:05 PM	Rate (0)
fabric Posts: 5 Rating: (0)	> ...could be use HW key where it'spossible store some data, > then create protected script to check for that data on the key... Ok. The problem is where (or how to) implement this script, because anyone is able to open a WinCC C script.
fabric Posts: 5 Rating: (0)
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9/28/2009 1:21 PM	Rate (0)
Mike J Platinum Member Joined: 10/9/2007 Last visit: 9/12/2025 Posts: 1282 Rating: (116)	Hi One solution would be to use ActiveX objects instead of normal WinCC objects. Check the Industrial X add-on. You make your own objects and deliver only the object to the customer, not the code. For C-Scripts you can always put a password and prevent anyone from reading it. Mike J
	Energy Automation products: Sicam, Siprotec, Digsi
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9/29/2009 12:18 PM	Rate (0)
CBo Gold Member Joined: 4/5/2006 Last visit: 7/30/2025 Posts: 917 Rating: (63)	Hi fabric , fabric ..Ok. The problem is where (or how to) implement this script, because anyone is able to open a WinCC C script.... in WinCC it possible protect scripts with password...noone can opene it without password. a lot of tread has been posted from ppl asked how to open a protected script . the answer is always same: there is NO tool to open protectected script. But nobody can sure you nobody can open it. Regards

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9/29/2009 3:34 PM	Rate (0)
Neto Experienced Member Joined: 9/27/2006 Last visit: 8/21/2025 Posts: 47 Rating: (5)	CBo ... But nobody can sure you nobody can open it. You are right... I can open it... But anyway, I have seen a project where the supplier used somescript (password protected)to compare the MAC Address of the machine and in case it was not the "original", some internal tags wouldn't be set properly and there were few places in the project that would look for this tag. So the project wouldn't work correctly. I don't think that would be a problem to an expert figure that out and clear the "protection", but it is possible to make it pretty tricky that could confuse many regular developers. In my opinion, doesn't matter how hard you will protect your project, it will always be possible to create a new blank WinCC Project and just copy the PDL files and even the FCT, PAS, etc. For a solid protection, the WinCC should have some kind of Encryption "built-in" forALL its files!

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