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| 12/22/2009 8:16 AM | |
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Posts: 100 Rating:
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Hi to all. I am new for s7-400 series. but i hope its same like s7 300. i should do one hardware redundancy project.i attached the configuration details below. please send what are the PLC items suitable for this configuration. I thing Fibre Optic converter need for communicate b/w PLC station to RIO station. the confiuration details should fulfill the * POWER SUPPLY REDUNDANCY. * CPU REDUNDANCY * COMMUNICATION REDANDANCY. Could anybody send the details. Thanking you. Attachmenthardware redandancy.pdf (564 Downloads) |
| 12/22/2009 3:37 PM | |
Joined: 9/27/2006 Last visit: 11/16/2024 Posts: 12294 Rating:
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Hello sundar; Well, first, there are many common points between the S7-300 and S7-400 CPUs (same programming environment, same communication blocks and networks...) but the S7-400 is considered top-of-the line processors by Siemens, compared to the S7-300 family (medium-level CPUs). The S7-400 family has some striking diofferences, in format, hardware backplane, and memory. They also offer in some specialized CPUs, the H-systems, hardware redundancy (or as Siemens calls it, high-availablity, fault-tolerant system). Those systems offer extremely fast turn-over from CPU fault, automatic transfer of the program and data between primary and stand-by processors, and you may choose to implement redundant power supplies, redundant IOs over Profibus-DP (using Y-links, and ET 200M IOs with active backplane)and redundant communications over Industrial Ethernet if you choose so. I suggest you look at the Siemens Controllers portal, on the page dedicated to S7-400H systems. https://www.automation.siemens.com/mcms/programmable-logic-controller/en/simatic-s7-controller/s7-400/cpu/fault-tolerant-cpus/Pages/Default.aspx Edit: here is another ink to the A&D Mall configurator for S&-400H systems. You will find there some technical information on the different CPUs available for redundancy and their capacities, along with details of the different levels of redundancy available.. You will also find, amongst the links at the right of the webpage, a hardware configurator, "Catalog and ordering system online",which would allow you to determine what elements you would require for your system, and select the correct part numbers. Note that you will have to think about using fiber-optic connections (withOLM-Gxx converters andmultimode glass fiber, probably) for your 3 km run to the remote station. Also remember to have the materials list validated before you start purchasing; the best way to do this would be to approach your Siemens distributor and discuss issues with them; we on the forum could also help you out for specific problems. Hope this helps, Daniel Chartier |
Last edited by: dchartier at: 12/22/2009 5:24 PMLink to the Hardware Configurator seems defective on the Controllers portal. Last edited by: dchartier at: 12/22/2009 3:53 PM |
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| 12/24/2009 7:57 AM | |
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Posts: 100 Rating:
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Thanks Dchartier, Till i have a doubt about Siemens s7 400 interface module & communication modules in Siemens is there any CD available to learn about all hardware's in Siemens website .If available means send me the link. I have attached the revision configuration diagram below i don't know whether its working or not. my doubts are the following 1. I considered 2 no's CPU 414-4H . I need details about that CPU which cable i should use to connect b/w that CPU. what r the possible ports( Profibus, FO,Ethernet, etc) available in that CPU. how i should connect to IO modules. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. I need totally 600 DI, 240 DO, 40 AI, 16 AO in PLC Panel so i thing i use 19 ------------------ 32 channel digital input modules 15 ------------------ 16 channel digital output modules 5 ------------------ 8 channel analog input modules 2 ------------------ 8channel analog output modules. how many interface module need to connect this much of modules. i thing its not possible to connect all modules in a single rack. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3 & 4. I have no idea about H-Link . i thing the link have 2 incoming port and 2 outgoing port. is it avilable 2 incoming profibus & 2 outgoing FO module as mentioned in Diagram. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5. How i should connect 2 communication cable in RIO Module. is there any interface module available with 2 ports. i need 50 DI, 160 DO, 16 AO in RIO panel. so i thing i use 2 ------------------ 32 channel digital input modules 10 ------------------ 16 channel digital output modules 2 ------------------ 8channel analog output modules. is it possible to connect in single rack. how i should tack 2 ethernet cable from RIO panel to OPERATING STATION. Is there any module available with 2 ehertnet port. are should i use 2 CP. i need the details. Slide 1 .O {font-size:149%;} Attachmenthardware redundancy_rev.zip (368 Downloads) |
| 1/1/2010 1:40 AM | |
Joined: 7/2/2008 Last visit: 9/30/2024 Posts: 928 Rating:
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Hello Sundar,
As Nil96 has already mentioned and as you draw in your configuration, you should use the DP ports. I highly recommend to read the S7-Fault-tolerant system manual to gain more knowledge about H systems. Read chapter 10 so you can know how to use your I/Os in H-system.
There's nothing called H-Link. There's something called Y-Link and it's used to link one sided DP slaves to the 2 DP masters (H-System). By one sided DP slaves, I mean slaves with single DP port like drives, DP transmitters,..etc. Back to your system, you should use OLMs (Optical Link Modules). The OLM is a media converter that converts from copper media to fiber optic media so you can cover long distances that can never becovered in copper networks. To the best of my knowledge, at this distance (3 Km), your fiber optic cable network can't be plastic. It must be a glass one. You should read SIMATIC NET Profibus Network manual and OLMs manual as well in order to get enough knowledge about fiber optic networks.
You can never have Ethernet communication from ET200M. For your information the ET200M can have only CP 340 and CP341. These CPs are used for point to point communication (TTY,RS232,RS422 & RS485). In H-systems, you MUST use CP443-1 to join Ethernet networks. You must use CP1613 with Red. Connect license loaded on PC station as mentioned before. BUT here comes a problemsince you put your PC station near to the limited I/O count and your H-station near to the high dense IO area. I recommend to mover your PC in H-station area. There's another solution which is moving your H-system near to thelimited I/O area and near to PC but the big number of I/Os will be 3 Km far from H station. It's possible to do and will work but I do not recommend this solution. I prefer to put the controller near to I/Os and I prefer to put your PC station near to the H-station. You can also build another fiber optic Ethernet network that will linkPC stations with H-system regardless of their locations. In this case you may go to SCALANCE Ethernet switches with fiber optic ports. Best regards. H-H Attachmenthardware redandancy_rev2 .pdf (379 Downloads) |
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| 1/4/2010 2:05 PM | |
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Posts: 100 Rating:
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Thanks Nil & H-H Now i got some Idea about that Configuration. i have attached rev3 architecture. I Know we can't connect SCADA from Remote I/O station(From ur Previous Reply). But Customer wants to connect from RIO (why because the previous Unit SCADA station is near RIO panel so customer wants this Unit SCADA near Our RIO Panel) Is there any Other way to connect SCADA from RIO.(Customer feel unhappy lay new FO cable from CPU to RIO Panel) Could anybody tell me the Cpu Slot Arrangement Deatails for Hardware Redundancy s/m and power supply Redundancy connection Diagram. ( Is CPU have 2 Power Supply Terminal or should we join two power supply +ve into single TB and -Ve into another TB ) Is there any modification in my attached Configuration means Pls Correct me. pls guide me the suitable Part no for OLM and Scalance. Thanks & Regards, Sundar. Attachmenthardware redandancy_rev3.zip (372 Downloads) |
| 1/5/2010 9:55 PM | |||||||||||
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Joined: 9/27/2006 Last visit: 11/16/2024 Posts: 12294 Rating:
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Hello sundar; How is your project advancing? Have you started working with the S7-400 configurator I proposed earlier, now that you have a better idea of what your application entails? Devising a bill of materials for such a system can be demanding, and you msut take time to understand what you are doing before you commit yourself. I am attaching a basic configuration I prepared, using the configurator, based on the info you provided. For example, you ask for PS. redundancy in the S7-400H CPUs. So I have selected a UR2-H rack (2 x 9 slots), 4 redundant power supplies, 2 CPUs, 2 CP 443-1 for Ind. Ethernet, and 2 F.O. link modules for redundancy communications.This should cover your needs, as far as you can start with the project. But you still have to choose the RAM or RPOM cards in the CPUs, for example. You have given no specifications on the type of digital and analog signals you will process so I have systematically selected 24 V DC and 4-20 mA IOs; adjust them with your own requirements. Please do not take this as a definite application, you must adapt it carefully to your requirements. NOTE: upload the file (400H.jpg), save it, and rename it 400H.con to be able to open it in the configurator. For your run of 3 km of FO cable, you will need to insert 4 OLM/G1x, 2 per Profibus line, between the main station and the RIO station. G11 refers to 1 FO connector and 1 RS-485 connector; G12 means 1 RS-485 connector with 2 FO connectors(allows star or ringtopologies); so OLM/G11 would probably cover your needs in this instance. Here is a selection of part numbers that can be of help. They come from the A&D Mall, just click on the part number to see a Desciption tab that will give you info on the particularities of each one:
As far as the SCALANCE switches, the selection will depend on how you plan to organise your network: managed or unmanaged swtiches, IWAN links, etc... Please refer to the Scalance portal link that was given to you earlier. Hope this helps, Daniel Chartier |
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Last edited by: dchartier at: 1/5/2010 10:52 PM |
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| 1/7/2010 10:22 PM | |
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Joined: 7/2/2008 Last visit: 9/30/2024 Posts: 928 Rating:
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Hello Sundar,
1- If customer wants then customer has to pay. 2- Think about multi-core fiber optic cables (One cable would serve OLMs and SCALANCE). 3-I recommend the fiber optic Ehternet however, there are 2 other solutions, 1- Switching repeaters (Look at 4th solution). You can use the same 2 Profibus subnets with repeaters that are switchedby a digital output according to theMASTER CPU. 2- Redundant operator stations (Look at3rd solution). Connect each station to one of the 2 subnets. 2stations might be cheaper than fiber optic Ethernetnetwork but you have toconsider the cost of another station with another CP5611 and required licenses.
1- You use 2 different modules 16 DO and 32 DO. For the sake of maintenance and spare parts availability, you should use one type of module (32DO) since the price difference is minor in such system. 2-Youput 16 AI modules in third IM153-2 (SM4&SM5). Only S7-400 has 16 AI module. You can only use one of the 8 AI modules (All S7-300 SM331 can be used). Best regards. H-H |
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