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Reasons to select Profibus instead of Profinet

Created by: TEBANCH at: 7/4/2013 11:45 PM (19 Replies)

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7/5/2013 9:10 AM	Rate (0)
AMAZINGAHMED Gold Member Joined: 8/27/2006 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 719 Rating: (88)	Well, it depends on the project circumstances. If the factory has an Ethernet infrastructure, then I can make use of it. If in the factory I cannot lay more cables, then I can use wireless Ethernet. If I have to connect to 3rd party which supports only Ethernet, then I have no choice. If I'm to connect my system to a web server or to the Internet, then Ethernet is the only option. An advantage I see in using Ethernet, that I can connect to the PLC without the need for PC Adapter... only an ethernet cable. I think Ethernet is the future and will replace Profibus eventually.
	The more you know, The more you know that you don't know
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7/5/2013 10:44 AM	Rate (0)
Navnag Platinum Expert Joined: 11/21/2007 Last visit: 9/25/2024 Posts: 2325 Rating: (308)	Hello I think this needs toput into two catagories : a) Communication between PLCs and HMI / SCADA - Here Ethernet is overhelmingly a better option as it is easier to integrate and generallyno special communication cards are required in the HMI/SCADA PCs ( Except for special requirementslike comm with 400H ). b) Field bus communication i.e. connection of Remote I/Os,other intelligent devices . - This depends upon the actual application. Here Profibus still holds stongs and offeres several advanatages. There are still many devices / configuration ( e.g. software redundancy ) which do not support profinet. However Profinet is catching up fast and it seems that it is only a matter of time when it overtakesProfibus. The fact that SIEMENS itself has opted for Ethernet ( Profinet capable ) ports as the native ports in S7-1200 and S7-1500gives an indication of the direction in which we are heading. Cheers Navnag
	There is no such thing as the last bug in a program There are no stubborn bugs, There are only stubborn Debuggers.
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7/5/2013 11:11 AM	Rate (0)
Valli Posts: 262 Rating: (45)	Navnag Hello Ring Topology isa bare minimum requirement in Profinet and not a special feature. By far the biggestissue that i see in profinet is that if any node fails or RJ45 connector removed from any node all the downstream nodes lose communication.Ring Topology is a must to avoid this. If any node fails then no problem to downside devices as till today we do ethernet communication using STAR topology ( which is commonly done earlier as line topology was not supported by ethernet as a physical layer). Now, since profinet consists of the feature of profibus in addition tothis you get the benefits of features like ring, auto addressing, speed, priority, Isochronous RealTime ( formotion controls)etc. Siemens Profinet devices specally simocode pro pn, pac pn along with s-7 1200 with scalance ROCKS !!
Valli Posts: 262 Rating: (45)	Last edited by: Valli at: 7/5/2013 11:15 AM
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7/5/2013 12:08 PM	Rate (0)
Navnag Platinum Expert Joined: 11/21/2007 Last visit: 9/25/2024 Posts: 2325 Rating: (308)	Dear Valli You are right ... Profinet Star connection has some excellent features. But then you have to use a lot of Scalance units ( especially is no os slaves is large ) and this pushes up the cost. We need to balance constantly between the cost and benefits to survive. Starconnection is also very easily achievable in Profibus - Just use repeaters Thanks Navnag
	There is no such thing as the last bug in a program There are no stubborn bugs, There are only stubborn Debuggers.
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7/8/2013 5:25 PM	Rate (0)
tae Posts: 7 Rating: (0)	You can not use PROFINET in an explosive atmosphere. There is no intrinsically safe Ethernet standard.
tae Posts: 7 Rating: (0)
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7/9/2013 6:45 AM	Rate (0)
Valli Posts: 262 Rating: (45)	Hey... I have never came across any application for hazardous area yet but today when i refered to the docs available with me, i found all our Siemens Automation devices are compatible with Profinet and approved ( ATEX II 3G)and markedsuitable to usethem inExplosive areas.. Refer the docs attached for knowingprofinet in hazardous area and also read the below article. http://www.iebmedia.com/index.php?id=7302&parentid=74&themeid=255&showdetail=true&bb=true Attachment Brochure_explosion_protection_en.pdf (461 Downloads)
Valli Posts: 262 Rating: (45)
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7/9/2013 7:12 AM	Rate (0)
SolutionFinder Posts: 559 Rating: (87)	TEBANCH Hello Dear Colleagues, Maybe a silly question but here is it: Suppose that you are free to choose between using profibus or profinet for a new project, the question is: Under which conditions you will preffer to use profibus instead of profinet? Thanks for sharing your experience in this matter, have a great day. Regards. Profibus is a bus topology while profinet is a star topology. Means in profibus if any where wire cuts then all the station after the break will be disconneted from the Master. While profinet is a star topology in this case if at any node wire cuts only that perticular node will be disconnected from the master if there is no further connection from that node. In Profibus we can add the node only from the last station & it is very much difficult to add the node from the in between nodes if the distance is higher While in profinet we can easily add any node without changing any wiring layout.
SolutionFinder Posts: 559 Rating: (87)
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7/9/2013 7:19 AM	Rate (0)
AMAZINGAHMED Gold Member Joined: 8/27/2006 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 719 Rating: (88)	SolutionFinder TEBANCH Hello Dear Colleagues, Maybe a silly question but here is it: Suppose that you are free to choose between using profibus or profinet for a new project, the question is: Under which conditions you will preffer to use profibus instead of profinet? Thanks for sharing your experience in this matter, have a great day. Regards. Profibus is a bus topology while profinet is a star topology. Means in profibus if any where wire cuts then all the station after the break will be disconneted from the Master. While profinet is a star topology in this case if at any node wire cuts only that perticular node will be disconnected from the master if there is no further connection from that node. In Profibus we can add the node only from the last station & it is very much difficult to add the node from the in between nodes if the distance is higher While in profinet we can easily add any node without changing any wiring layout. You can make redundant Profibus (bus topology) network to avoid that error. You can also make Profibus (ring topology) network. You can also make Profibus (redundant ring topology) network. Profinet also can be used in Star, Ring and Double Ring topology
	The more you know, The more you know that you don't know
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7/10/2013 6:45 AM	Rate (0)
edsel lin Experienced Member Joined: 5/17/2010 Last visit: 2/21/2022 Posts: 80 Rating: (1)	UMENCHO edsel lin My simple reason: I would prefer to use profinet first, if: - the module already support the TCP port, such as 315-2PN/DP or S7-1200. - the distance is less than 100 m. - need high speed communication And Profibus would be selected if: - Need longer distance, if too long I can lower the baud rate or use a repeater. - Lower baud rate is acceptable According to me the distance is not the probelm as there is possible to use FO. But definetely about the speed I am with you. Agreed about FO possibility, how about the price comparison coz I never use FO before.

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7/10/2013 7:07 AM	Rate (0)
Ayman Elotaify Platinum Member Joined: 5/28/2008 Last visit: 11/6/2024 Posts: 4516 Rating: (839)	edsel lin Agreed about FO possibility, how about the price comparison coz I never use FO before. Hello, I do not think that this question could be answered here without more details. If you have a copper profibus network and you have the network topology, then number of nodes are known, and lengthes are known too. So you can calculate the price easily. If you have a copper profinet network and you have the network topology, then number of nodes are known, and lengthes are known too. So you can calculate the price easily. If you have FO profibus / profinet network and you have the network topology, then number of nodes are known, and lengthes are known too, further parameters is needed to quote: Type of Cable? How many cores per cable? How many Spare core would you like to terminate? Laying price of the cable, which is higher than Profinet / profibus and most likely shold be handled by vendor No. of Patch Panels No. of Couplers No. of terminators and type of them Patch cord cables type and no. of them. termination price Testing method and its price. The above points are different from country to country and from site to site. But I have named them for you (as far as I know). Hope this helps.
	Ayman Elotaify
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