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Can the Siemens PLC support IEC60870-5-103

Created by: Chandra Tiwari at: 8/20/2014 10:56 AM (11 Replies)

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8/20/2014 10:56 AM	Rate (0)
Chandra Tiwari Posts: 247 Rating: (2)	Hi Fritz, Please tell me Can the Siemens PLC support IEC60870-5-103?? I am using SIEMENS PLC 315 i want to extract disturbance record and event record from SIEMENS 7SR11/12 reyroll relay. I told that it can only exatract the data from IED if it will work on IEC103. I have to do programming in PLC in IEC103 i am totaly unaware about this.
Chandra Tiwari Posts: 247 Rating: (2)	Last edited by: CS Moderator at: 8/24/2014 10:43 PM new subject after splitting from /tf/WW/en/Posts/36513#top
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8/20/2014 1:04 PM	Rate (1)
Navnag Platinum Expert Joined: 11/21/2007 Last visit: 9/25/2024 Posts: 2325 Rating: (308)	RaviS Hi Fritz, Please tell me Can the Siemens PLC support IEC60870-5-103?? I am using SIEMENS PLC 315 i want to extract disturbance record and event record from SIEMENS 7SR11/12 reyroll relay. I told that it can only exatract the data from IED if it will work on IEC103. I have to do programming in PLC in IEC103 i am totaly unaware about this. Hello RaviS You can use SIPLUS_RIC Library which includes IEC-60870-5-103 Protocol besides IEC-60870-5-104 / IEC-60870-5-101 protocols. Here is the Link for more details : SIPLUS_RIC However, I must add that these libraries need good knowledge of S7 programming and would be difficult to use for beginners. Besides you need to be familiar with IEC-60870-103 protocol which is a Telecontrol protocol and has a very different implementation as compared to Automation protocols like Profibus , Modbus or Profinet. Hope this helps Cheers Navnag
	There is no such thing as the last bug in a program There are no stubborn bugs, There are only stubborn Debuggers.
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8/20/2014 1:32 PM	Rate (0)
Chandra Tiwari Posts: 247 Rating: (2)	Hi Navnag, Thank you for information. First of all i am new for SIEMENS just working on 3rd project on PCS7. Earlier projects i worked on IEC 60850 with Power control DBA tool. I am not sure if we can provide the best solution to client to monitor Siemens Reyroll family Relay (IEDs) on PCS7 or WINCC and disturbance waveform along with Events on reydisp (reyroll configuration software). In the case of IEC it was easy because of PCS7 and Powercontrol. but in this case i have challange of IEC 103. Client want cheaper solution with WINCC/Step7 but disturbance record waveform is the chllange. you have any sample project or something knowledgebase manuals? I am not getting much content on internet and no local siemens support.
Chandra Tiwari Posts: 247 Rating: (2)	Last edited by: RaviS at: 8/20/2014 1:34 PM
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8/20/2014 1:33 PM

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dchartier

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Hello Ravi;

Standard S7-300 and S7-400 CPUs do not support IEC-60870-5 protocols natively.

However Siemens provides so-called Siplus RIC bundles (including the CPU, MMC card, communication interface module and program blocks for the specific IEC 60870-5 variant you choose) that are dedicated to sub-station communications.

See here (in the Siemens Industry Mall) for more details (RIC bundles are also available for the S7-400, look at the navigation tree at the left of the link page):

SIPLUS RIC S7-300 bundles IEC 60870 - Industry Mall

Overview

If a SIMATIC S7-300 based system is to communicate with a Siemens control center, e.g. SIMATIC PCS 7 TeleControl, WinCC TeleControl, WinCC OA, or a control center of a third-party supplier using the IEC60870-5 telecontrol standard, the IEC 60870-5-101 (serial), -103 (protection) or -104 (TCP/IP) telecontrol protocols can be used in the SIMATIC automation systems.

SIPLUS RIC bundles offer an integrated, scalable system based on SIMATICS7-300 functions, for the following data quantities:

• 200 information points, with CPU314

• 1000 information points, with CPU315

• 2000 information points, with CPU317

• 5000 information points, with CPU319

The non-retain memory can now also be used for buffering message frames. Longer communication failure times can thus be bridged. The SIPLUS RIC software libraries are based on the standard SIMATIC Manager and can be used on various, mutually compatible types of SIMATIC S7 devices – this saves hardware costs and programming overhead.

Example: Part number of the S7-315-2PN based RIC bundle for IEC 60870-5-103 protocol:

SIPLUS RIC IEC60870-5-103 master;
with SIMATIC CPU315-2PN, MMC 128 KB,

SIMATIC CP 341 (RS422/RS485 interface)

6AG6 003-1AC02-6CA0

Finally, have a look at the following manual on the program blocks for IEC 60870-5-103:

SIPLUS RIC IEC on S7 Functional description IEC 60870-5-103 Master Version V1.5

Hope this helps,

Daniel Chartier

Last edited by: dchartier at: 8/20/2014 1:46 PM

Last edited by: dchartier at: 8/20/2014 1:36 PM

8/20/2014 1:48 PM	Rate (0)
Chandra Tiwari Posts: 247 Rating: (2)	Hi dchartier, Thank you for information. It is clear that for IEC103 we have to go for SIPLUS RIC controllers, conventional types of controllers will not work? What you suggest PCS7 with telecontrol or WINCC with IEC libraries if i have 25 IEDs. I never worked on IEC103 protocol.
Chandra Tiwari Posts: 247 Rating: (2)	Last edited by: RaviS at: 8/20/2014 1:50 PM
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8/20/2014 1:55 PM	Rate (0)
eisenpferdreiter Posts: 1058 Rating: (93)	RaviS Hello experts, I have to do programming for 7SR11 SIEMENS protection relays, i want to know is S7 300 or 400 PLC supportsIEC60870-5-103. Hello RaviS, there are bundles of S7 314 and SIPLUS RIC IEC60870-5-103 Master available. More details you will find here: SIPLUS RIC Bundles with S7-300 You might also be interested in this: SIPLUS RIC IEC on S7 Functional description IEC 60870-5-103 Master Version V1.5 SIPLUS RIC IEC on S7 Interoperability list IEC 60870-5-103 Master V1.5 regards
eisenpferdreiter Posts: 1058 Rating: (93)
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8/20/2014 2:36 PM	Rate (0)
Chandra Tiwari Posts: 247 Rating: (2)	Hi Eisenpferdreiter, I have 24 IEDs so i have to take 1 master and may i connect all 24 slave in that? or like conventional CP card (modbus) i am connecting only 8 slave (IEDs) so i have to take slave PLC also? can you have any system general architecture to understand the system configuration/architecture.
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8/20/2014 2:47 PM	Rate (0)
Navnag Platinum Expert Joined: 11/21/2007 Last visit: 9/25/2024 Posts: 2325 Rating: (308)	RaviS Hi Navnag, Thank you for information. First of all i am new for SIEMENS just working on 3rd project on PCS7. Earlier projects i worked on IEC 60850 with Power control DBA tool. I am not sure if we can provide the best solution to client to monitor Siemens Reyroll family Relay (IEDs) on PCS7 or WINCC and disturbance waveform along with Events on reydisp (reyroll configuration software). In the case of IEC it was easy because of PCS7 and Powercontrol. but in this case i have challange of IEC 103. Client want cheaper solution with WINCC/Step7 but disturbance record waveform is the chllange. you have any sample project or something knowledgebase manuals? I am not getting much content on internet and no local siemens support. Dear RaviS The SIPLUS_RIC IEC Library will allow you to communicate the following between the protection relays and S7 PLC ( consequently on WinCC ) : a) Digital Signals ( SP and DP ) b) Measured Values c) Commands ( SC and DC ) d) Integrated Totals .. etc. Howeveryou cannot read the disturbance records using SIPLUS RIC. There are no sample projects, however you can download the SIPLUS_RIC Manuals from the link posted by me earlier. Also you can download the Library Demo versions for testing. The Demo version blocks can be run for 15 minutes without license activation after loading in PLC. Hope this helps Cheers Navnag
	There is no such thing as the last bug in a program There are no stubborn bugs, There are only stubborn Debuggers.
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8/20/2014 3:03 PM	Rate (0)
Chandra Tiwari Posts: 247 Rating: (2)	Hi Navnag, THank you for information. One more doubt since i never worked on IEC103, the S7 programming for the SIPLUS RIC modules in SIMATIC manager is like same as conventionally we are doing? in the case of modbus on CP card like generating quiry and getting reply from register. Now i am planning to go with the following hardwares in my system for 24 IEDs. PLC S7 315-2PN/DP IM ET200M CP-342-1 modbus card (4no,, 1 no. for 4 IEDs) with modbus library WINCC with Step7 Tag and license etc. I am going to extract the data locally from IED not remotely ;)
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8/20/2014 3:23 PM	Rate (0)
eisenpferdreiter Posts: 1058 Rating: (93)	RaviS Hi Eisenpferdreiter, I have 24 IEDs so i have to take 1 master and may i connect all 24 slave in that? or like conventional CP card (modbus) i am connecting only 8 slave (IEDs) so i have to take slave PLC also? can you have any system general architecture to understand the system configuration/architecture. If you look in manual SIPLUS RIC IEC on S7 Functional description IEC 60870-5-103 Master Version V1.5 you will find following under chapter 4.1.2 - ASDU-Address Parameter-DB: In the parameter DB the ASDU addresses and the assignment to the corresponding device (link address) have to be indicated. The path for reaching the respective ASDU is defined via this assignment. System related, the maximum number of the link and ASDU addresses is only limited by the DB length. Up to 8 link and ASDU addresses have been tested. regards
eisenpferdreiter Posts: 1058 Rating: (93)
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Can the Siemens PLC support IEC60870-5-103

Created by: Chandra Tiwari at: 8/20/2014 10:56 AM (11 Replies)

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