OOP in Tia portal? Third version of IEC 61131-3 ??

Hello,

I sometimes feel like im not being taken serious when programming in Tia Portal. Why?

I need more tools to structurize large complex programs. Siemens PLC's are lacking that part to structure larger programs. For example Codesys V3.5 you have all the OOP goodness.

Im talking about Classes, Methods, Interfaces etc. Combined with OPC UA this is very powerfull. 

Why isn't Siemens jumping into this? I only use Function Blocks for structurizing my project. Ladder and SFC isn't used so much anymore as PLC programs getting more complex.

Ladder/SFC/FB is nice for Logo PLC's to replace Relay logic.

Is there any plans to support the third iteration of IEC 61131-3 ?

Some information and examples:

https://plcopen.org/news/plcopen-guidelines-object-orientation 

https://www.plccoder.com/category/iec-61131-3/the-three-pillars-of-oop/

https://stefanhenneken.wordpress.com/2017/04/23/iec-61131-3-methods-properties-and-inheritance/

Greetings.

Hello HJWill;

Siemens has started introducing OOP in some of their software offerings, such as Simotion (for advanced motion control) :

Object-oriented programming with Simotion 

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/us/en/view/109742819

My experience with Siemens tells me that other software will integrate it, as they introduce new versions of scripting in their SCADA and in their PLC programming packages. I recommend you do not hold your breath, change comes slowly to them, they prefer stability and reliability.

And so do their clients, it seems, their market share in industry is remarkable.

Hope this helps,

Daniel Chartier

Edit: here is a link to the book referenced in the link above:

https://books.google.ca/books/about/Object_Oriented_Programming_with_SIMOTIO.html?id=Ug8rDwAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y

Thank you for your response.

The things i see with Simotion is exactly what i need .  The problem is indeed reusability and to create my own library of components. This will greatly increase my engineering speed for future projects where we incorporate the PLC as a part of the series production where every customer has their own specific requirements. (I am extremely lazy person)

It has alot advantages towards users like me who feel they can't grow in development speed, and also learn C++ and see the advantages of OOP.

I hope Siemens doesn't delay this too much. I understand from the S7-300 perspective that OOP creates too much overhead probably.

But the S7-1500 are so fast and have so much memory. It should also advance forward in terms of ST language is my opinion. It's more and more about "datastructures" and "algorithms" then just switches and coils. The world is changing. 

I really like the Siemens hardware, as it's reliable, very well engineered. Space saving and it's available for a very long time for service and worldwide available. Very strong selling point over other PLC brands. But from a programmer's side it's a bit dissapointing, if you compare to other brands. I hope Siemens will step up their game. We will see! 

Thanks for your detailed response. 

This is something of an old chestnut for me. When I had my first encounters with C++, some years ago, and first came to some kind of grasp of what OOP is all about and why it is the better way to organise your code, I gave some thought to how I could change my approach to writing PLC code accordingly. And I was somewhat guilty of throwing my hands up in the air and saying – oh it’s pointless! PLC programming languages remain entirely geared up to the traditional functional organisational approach. No-one will understand what I am trying to achieve.

But then I worked on a project where the customer had specified that everything was to be done in accordance with the S88 standard. Now, there is a great deal more to the S88 standard than just automation software. And there is a great deal more to the bit of the S88 standard that covers automation software than just what it calls ‘The Physical Model’. A broader discussion of the virtues and the problems of a full-scale implementation of the S88 standard is another subject altogether. But I recall my first read-up on the S88 standard Physical Model approach, and I recall immediately recognising it to be Object Oriented Programming for the PLC. Let’s be clear, there are no classes, there is no inheritance, as such, and there are no overloaded functions. It’s just a different way of organising your code. But, if you get it right, it does have all of the advantages of portability, adaptability, reusability, maintainability that is what the OOP approach is all about. Since that time, it is the guiding principle I have used in all my PLC programs. Again, understand, I have never again worked on a project where full implementation of the S88 standard was even attempted, but I have used the Physical Model idea as the organising principle of my code. One of the great advantages I have found is that it does have a natural tendency to separate out infrastructural code from automatic control code, which is something I see as definitely virtuous.

Anyway, just a thought to put out there, if you want to think about something more akin to an OOP approach to writing PLC code, have a little look at the principles of the Physical Model as defined in the S88 standard.

Hi!

You have two resource intense option I think.

1. Extend TIA portal via .NET and automate your clicks.

2. Generate SCL in a script language import as source file and step 1. for the remaining steps.

Hey guys!

 Dear HJWill I share your concerns as well. It's about reducing the energy and time we put for programming. For siemens as far as I know there are two looking like Object Oriented programming platforms, one as "dchartier" pointed out in motion technology and the other is quite embedded in PCS 7.

PCS7 is mostly focused on process engineering where it comes with libraries along with many prebuilt functions within, which easily could be dragged into CFC (Continues Function Chart) programming area. It has reduced function writing and HMI tasks significantly, for example blocks for scaling, alarming, valves, pumps and so forth are there, and, when they are dragged into CFC respective Faceplates are called to be loaded into Wincc as well which we don't need to create them, that of which after downloading to Wincc just relocating the objects is needed. PCS 7 has also a sophisticated version of graph called SFC (sequential Function Chart) as well.

All in all I loved the library in CFC. I wish Siemens put those Blocks in TIA portal as well.

here is a link opens in new window for PCS 7 Overview

Regards,

Qasem''

Hi Guys,

Still currently in the Tia Portal V19 there is no real OOP implementation. But now there is another solution for programming using the IEC 61131-3 that really implements the ST OOP implementation: SIMATIC AX

And the cool part of it is, that you do program the PLC in Visual Studio Code!! So those that like VS Code like me can be happy 

Regards