Dear community,

I also think that TIA PORTAL must be improved,

I miss a least two things from previous versions:

-As already commented where is the Crlt+Alt+Q function to see another tag than the selected one?

-Why I can't configure to show the tag with the comments over the same tar instead show this in a box under my large network, if a work with different languages it is a very bad thing,

Thanks in advance...

This stupid software is slow, crashes often and errors out on nearly every nitty gritty detail. fault diagnostics is very unreliable.  Most of the time it errors out without any reason at all.

Here, we refer to TIA as PIA (Pain In Ass)

I am an experienced software developer that has developed OEM control systems and language compilers. Due to political decisions within my company we now use off the shelf PLC solutions (A-B, S7) instead of our OEM controller.

First of all I am sorry if the honesty of this post in any way upsets the establishment, but as Siemens promotes open and honest communucation, here are my thoughts "warts and all".

I am a long term user of RS Logix and PCS7/STEP7. I find RS Logix a much better piece of software. That said, PCS7/STEP7, though frustrating to use, is at least usable (unlike TIA). When I first saw / used TIA I was initially impressed. The user interface looked very professional and easy to use. However, you should never judge a book by its cover. Now that I have had the "pleasure" of using TIA in anger (much anger actually) I have to say that it is a very poor effort. This is a shame as I really think the Simatic hardware is very well made, has good functionality and is reliable. However, the whole experienced is tarnished by this "amateurish programmed" piece of software (as AMAZINGAHMED so brilliantly put it).

I too have suffered the waiting, waiting, waiting, random crashes and inexplicable error messages etc. etc. etc.

I had to convert some STEP7 SCL code to TIA. You would have thought that this would be a reasonably easy thing to do; Well you'd the wrong. The SCL file format is different. Not totally different, which would be excusable as the developers could claim that they were starting anew; No, it is subtly different, which is unbelievably frustrating. It also lends the question WHY???? You either make it the same or completely start afresh, not make it nearly the same. Take for example the block header information; some STEP7 fields are not permitted in TIA, or are permitted but are defined differently (some need quotes now but didn't in STEP7, others exactly the opposite, some work quoted/unquoted). Again why? Did the developers of TIA not talk to the STEP7 developers? I can see NO good reason to change something like this and it causes severe frustration to the user. They produced a conversion tool, which you will not be surprised to learn, doesn't actually work properly; It does half a job and the resultant SCL code will not actually compile without a good degree of manual effort by the user. So in the end I didn't bother using it. I intend to write my own convertor at some point.

I could go on, and on, and on about specific bugs, crashes, poor performance, poor documentation / help texts, inexplicable error messages, inexplicable differences between SCL source files from STEP7/TIA, useful functions in STEP7/PCS7 that have "magically" disapearred in TIA. But frankly, I have better things to do with my time. Plus I very much doubt that writing them here or raising SR's will in any way see our issues cleared up in anything approaching a reasonable timeframe (or indeed at all).

My experience of Siemens software seems to have highlighted a common theme; the software nearly always contains inexcusable bugs, is desperately difficult and unintuitive to use and is poorly documented. Siemens really needs to revisit its QA procedures as the quality of their released software leaves a lot to be desired. I could understand bugs being missed if the user is using some obscure feature or performing some function is an obscure manner to produce them. But many bugs are present when using mainstream features in recognised ways. In my opinion, these bugs really should have been identified during the pre-release BETA testing of the software. Quality software is not an accident; it is the result of good extensive testing. Yes, this sort of testing is expensive and time consuming; I know I have done it. But you get out what you put in. Seeing some of the bugs that I have witnessed in Siemens software, it really leads me into thinking if the software has been tested anything like as well as it should have been. If I had produced something this poor, I would have been embarrassed to admit to writing it, let alone selling it.

We in our company actually refer to TIA Portal as "Tear Poortool", which speaks volumes.

It is abundantly clear from this thread that the masses have spoken, but is anyone listening?

Since it was born, I'm spending HALF of the time that I'm in front of Tia Portal to find the way to override the bugs and keep on working. Right now I'm trying to export some text from a TP700 project, everything crash (yes, I'm using the very last version, 13 SP1 UPD3). No ways.

Step 7 5.5 was at least FAST, with Tia Portal I don't really see a future. Really hope to use it not so many time.

What comes in mind right now....

- As mentioned by many, It's slow. Even on a high end workstation the high amount of available core's stay unused by TIAP, running it from a SSD doesn't change much.

- Offline multiUserProject, now we constantly have to merge each other work to one source.

- be able to open a password protected function from another project (TIAP version) now you have to upgrade the whole project to view or remove the pw.

- Offline multiUserProject.

- Cross reference in TIAP reference project, now you have to close the reference in TIAP and open another TIAP instance, to look some up.

- Fix reconnect to project on Windows network locations, now when a connection timeout(idle-timeout) TIAP crashes.

Even on the TIAP reattempt suggestion to re-connect, even when you manualy open the network location(folder) to re-establish a connection network share.

- @Online Mode: Memory of the chosen "Display format" (auto/dec/hex/etc) while debug/fine tuning statics, now we have to change the view on every change to the CPU, and allow to change the format while there is a value of another format in the input field(auto clear).

- Offline multiUserProject !

- Allow double tag names, just give warnings (highlight tag) or warn on compile, so you can copy/paste»edit tags without the addition to  tags (tag(1),tag(2)).

- Did I mention offline multiUserProject ?

- Import  blocks of older TIAP versions (upgrade block on the fly in cache to new version, to import).- Emulation of Technology objects, now we have to add and configure those objects on-site (where time is high valued and limited), instead before, while we setup the IO and the rest of the program.

- Import IO lists from Excel.

- Import/Export DB's from Excel.

- Store Javascript in WEB server pages.

- Offline multiUserProject ....

- PLCSIM, The use of password protected blocks, so PLC Simulation doesn't stay useless. 

- Creating/managing your library in TIAP is a useless joke, limited in every way.

- TIAP Updater outruns Microsoft Update in search time, often doesn't find anything or does not rename the temp files(so I need to borrow updates from my colleague until is updated with upd4, with no guarantee.

- Fix font(forum seems to use the same as TIAP): Is it I or l ? (uppercase i or lowercase L)

- Enable scrolling in properties tab.... (just enable it everywhere)

- Keep focus on network/page ITEM when undo, now it jumps up all over the place(tops), annoying in FBD, useless in SCL.

- Fix: In FBD, networks tend to fall apart(un-wires all items in network) on tag edit, as (undo) isn't available when online. very annoying.

- When searching for a tag, the adjusted index window size will not save.

Tons of other things....

>= V13 SP1:  finally some days without a crashing TIAP (unless you start using WinCC ofc. , not mentioning all the glitches produced on a HMI, but that is another endless compile to fix story) .

Support is great and they fixed a lot of things (they should have notice while in dev), but if we deliver a product in such state as we received TIAP, it's probably the last time we work for that customer.

Hello There!

I'am also working with siemens stuff since 1992. Started with S5, then shifted to Step7 / S7 in 1996; and now I'am changing to Tia Portal / S7-1500. I am absolutely agree with you in the sense the Tia Portal is far from beeing ergonometric and friendly to use.  Too many flaps, too many information per page, too slow to go online, etc. Still love the classic SIMATIC MANAGER / STEP7 V5.5. I think TIA Portal still has a long way to go regarding user interface improvements. Regards. 

Heraclitus

Hello There!

I'am also working with siemens stuff since 1992. Started with S5, then shifted to Step7 / S7 in 1996; and now I'am changing to Tia Portal / S7-1500. I am absolutely agree with you in the sense the Tia Portal is far from beeing ergonometric and friendly to use.  Too many flaps, too many information per page, too slow to go online, etc. Still love the classic SIMATIC MANAGER / STEP7 V5.5. I think TIA Portal still has a long way to go regarding user interface improvements. Regards. 

Having nearly the same history,

I absolute agree with you!

S7-1500 PLC is "acyclic" with the bits from a HMI panel. Please make it "cyclic" or give the option to choose it as with the newer S7-300.

More info: S7-1500 Acyclic OS (HMI) Update

It's shortly true, but TIA  benefits is more than that's losses.

the biggest TIA benefit is, you have all pages, toolbar, comments, assistant, intelligent coworker, completely view and some benefit on runtime and online mode, when you open one software on your pc / laptop taskbar. 

if to be very concise, it's good but need to improved inn future.

thanks.

IsaSalimi

It's shortly true, but TIA  benefits is more than that's losses.

the biggest TIA benefit is, you have all pages, toolbar, comments, assistant, intelligent coworker, completely view and some benefit on runtime and online mode, when you open one software on your pc / laptop taskbar. 

if to be very concise, it's good but need to improved inn future.

thanks.

 If you want to have such a view as you mentioned you gonna need, at least, a 31" 4k wide screen. Or you spend half of your time opening / collapsing menu's.
A dual monitor envirnoment isn't gonna help you because the floating screens are alsmost impossible to edit (since the properties are not tied to this floating screen).

GRF_TUB

 ...
A dual monitor envirnoment isn't gonna help you because the floating screens are alsmost impossible to edit (since the properties are not tied to this floating screen).

Yes, that is exactly one of the (lot of) Problems!

Is this deaster going on with V14, ?

IBN-Service

 Is this deaster going on with V14, ?

 Do you think there is any need to ask

Hello,

I will install TIA Vxx when someone will say .......

 Oh now it works fine !!!! 

Ste39

Hello,

I will install TIA Vxx when someone will say .......

 Oh now it works fine !!!! 

hahaha,

great idea.

    Hi RangO,

          In my opinion, as a person worked too many years with Siemens automation equipment, TIA Portal was a revolution, we used to have a bunch of program for each different device. The main aim of TIA is to combine, to put together the whole system in one software. (even though many of programers still use it as a tool just for programing comfort touch panels) (**device proxy)

       My first determination about the problems of TIA Portal is the licensing part, but if you dowload it correct with licenses for each add-on  package you download, there won't be any problem. 

      You said that V12 does not have safety but V13 which is an available update nearly over a year has it, so you can upgrade it. Also V14 will be released soon to the market with all the safety function in it compatible with every eu country standard. 

      About the latency, yes thats true, but you are comparing it with Step 7, the graphics and details are obvious, of course it is not possible to be as fast as it. Although they are improving it. Some people tell that it needs to be faster since if there is a risk, immediate interfere is required. In my opinion, if you need that immediate interfere there is something wrong about the program you prepared. 

   These are just my opinion :)

   Have a Good Day 

Hello All

None of us would disagree with TIA as a concept. It is wonderful to have One single software for all your automation needs. There has been lot of discussions in this forum ( and Outside ) about TIA. Obviously TIA has some great features and for sure wonderful Graphics ( Which make for great Marketing Brochures ). 

To say that TIA is revolutionary because it has all packages integrated is a sort of overkill. Remember SIMATIC Manager too had packages which could be installed integrated ( Though TIA does it more stylishly ) with it e.g.

a) Drives - Drives-ES , Drive Starter  
b) Motion Control - Simotion Scout  
c) HMI - Protool-Pro , WinCC Flexible , WinCC SCADA
d) Switchgear -  Switch ES-Power , SIMOCODE-ES etc
e) Siwarex Weighing systems
e) D7-Sys for Simadyn-D , SIMATIC-TDC

... and This is just a part of the list .. BTW most of these packed are not YET available integrated in TIA !!

But the proof of the pudding, as they say, lies in eating it. Instead of being Subjective, let us judge TIA in an Objective Manner :

Now that TIA Portal has been in existence for more than 5 years , with 4 Major Versions ( 5th already announced ) and innumerable sub versions , service packs and Hotfixes, one would expect that it would be a fairly stable and reliable package with far better capabilities than its predecessors. Let us ask a few questions :


1.  Does TIA Portal actually REDUCE the Overall Software Development and Testing time ?

2.  Does the TIA Portal actually REDUCE the Commissioning / Troubleshooting time ?

3. Is it FULLY Backward Compatible ( I.e. you can easily Convert , upload , Edit and Download programs created by SIMATIC Manager or old versions of TIA)?

4. Are you able to Program / Commission the complete SIMATIC Product range with TIA Portal ( Or even 80% of the Range ) ?

5. Are you able to Integrate all the Contemporary Siemens Drive systems in TIA Portal ?

6. Are we able to Configure all Contemporary HMIs in TIA Portal ?

7. Are all the programs / libraries / commands common for all PLCs in TIA Portal ( A basic premise of having a single package for the complete range ).

8. Does TIA Portal offer you a reliable environment free from fear of Program crashes and corresponding corruption of program files ?

9. Given a choice would you like to use between SIMATIC Manager V5.x and TIA Portal for a project, would prefer to use TIA ?

10. Upgrading TIA versions / Installing service packs is a Painless Procedure.

If you can answer More than 5 questions in 'YES' then TIA Portal is more than Half way there and will will get there soon .. have patience.

If the Answers to more than 5 questions in 'NO' then TIA Portal Team need do do a serious review of things about where they have gone wrong about this product, which has such a wonderful concept. we are not getting there anytime soon.

Cheers
Navnag 

Navnag

....( Which make for great Marketing Brochures ). 

...To say that TIA is revolutionary because it has all packages integrated is a sort of overkill. Remember SIMATIC Manager too had packages which could be installed integrated ( Though TIA does it more stylishly ) with it e.g.

...

... and This is just a part of the list .. BTW most of these packed are not YET available integrated in TIA !!

...Let us ask a few questions :

...

Cheers
Navnag 

Dear Navnag, thank you for this great and intelligent statement!

Great Navnag,

 The SIEMENS developer should follows OMRON CX-One software, to say one...... 

Navnag

Hello All

...........................................................

.....................................

10. Upgrading TIA versions / Installing service packs is a Painless Procedure

If you can answer More than 5 questions in 'YES' then TIA Portal is more than Half way there and will will get there soon .. have patience.

If the Answers to more than 5 questions in 'NO' then TIA Portal Team need do do a serious review of things about where they have gone wrong about this product, which has such a wonderful concept. we are not getting there anytime soon.

Cheers
Navnag 

.... to be generous .... 8 NO and 2 yes.....

or am I wrong??

Best Regards

mindware

.... to be generous .... 8 NO and 2 yes.....

or am I wrong??

 I would say you are really very Generous 

thescottishfold

      In my opinion, as a person worked too many years with Siemens automation equipment, TIA Portal was a revolution, we used to have a bunch of program for each different device. The main aim of TIA is to combine, to put together the whole system in one software.

  I have to disagree. Behind the portal (a good use of architectural term) software is as fragmented as it was before.

WinCC Advanced is still a WinCC Flexible.

WinCC Professional is still a WinCC 7. And cannot be installed in parallel with other WinCC 6.x / 7.x versions, which create a nightmare for people who worked in this area long enough to go through all these innovations.

Software for variable frequency drives, softstarters, Simocode are distributed separately. The fact that everything is now crammed into single window does not add anything to usability.

L.S.

Now, three years later... what has happened ? I installed V13SP9 lately and it is getting a drama more and more...  now my tooltips are gone... I get red screens on changeovers... And TIA is still not compatible with windows 10... Nice

Good luck end-users... 

Rob Monster

L.S.

Now, three years later... what has happened ? I installed V13SP9 lately and it is getting a drama more and more...  now my tooltips are gone... I get red screens on changeovers... And TIA is still not compatible with windows 10... Nice

Good luck end-users... 

 ...yes, you are rigth.

3 years ago it was not compatible with Windows 10 too.

What have they done in this time?

Dear Siemens developpers, ladies and gentlemen using TIA software ... I've got a new fuc..ng joke from TIA.

When developping a screen, you expect your design to be exactly reproduce on the real touch screen, isn't it ?

Let's imaging you design a nice object, with some text on it. First, you do a little simulation (because it's quite long to upload a real screen... ) and everything is fine and nicely displayed.
Then you upload your real screen, and you check everything. And here it is : in your nice object with text, it doesn't look like exactly like on TIA.

After digging a lot with my colleagues, we found that the windows display option is causing this issue.

In windows menu \configuration panel \ display settings, you can choose "small (100%)" or "medium (125%)". If you are at "125%", then windows if forcing the display to be inceased ! Thus in TIA, your labels, object and everything is bigger than what it will be in the reality. The problem is, windows is also increasing the size of your object when you're doing the simulation ! So you find the problem only once you run the real screen !!!

Attached is a set of pictures and printscrenn showing the problem.
In picture "object in TIA.jpg" : windows settings is set to 125% and the text has to overlap
In picture "object in simulation.jpg" : windows settings is set to 125% and the text is overlap in the runtime simulation because windows is forcing the property of the computer screen
In picture "object in real screen windows 125per100" : windows settings is set to 125% and the text is nice in the real sceen !!
In picture "object in real screen windows 100per100" : windows settings is set to 100%, once a FULL compilation (tacking 15 minutes :-( ) is done, the text is overlap as it is in TIA !!!

In conclusion, when you're developping with TIA, make sure your windows settings is set to 100% !!!!! (see picture windows display settings.png)


For information, this post is showing similar issue with Step7 :
https://support.industry.siemens.com/tf/us/en/posts/cross-reference-window-distortion-due-to-display-setting/131038/?page=0&pageSize=10

If someone had a similar issue, and post a topic, you can ask a moderator to move my post in reference to your topic.

Hope this will hep, and someone from TIA will find a way to solve it...
Seb

Keywords : windows display settings display 125%

But TIA is such a rocking video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTzMDkfLNRs

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm facing a new 'bug' with TIA ... Already reported in the following post

https://support.industry.siemens.com/tf/ww/en/posts/vertical-scrollbar-width-in-alarm-list-or-combo-ect-tia-portal-v13-tp1200c/110836/?page=0&pageSize=10

https://support.industry.siemens.com/tf/ww/en/posts/tia-v13-wincc-rt-advanced-style-editor-unselect-scrolling-bar-too-small/111821/?page=0&pageSize=10

These posts are from 1st of july 2014 and 28th of november 2014, but still not corrected by TIA developpers in v13 SP1 Upd8... Maybe one of you has the solution :

In the alarm control, the vertical scroll is now so thin, that you cannot decently use your fingers to scroll !

This is not even due to the new "style" function. This even happen with an old project you migrate from WinCC2008 to TIA.

Someone has the same issue ?

Someone from siemens TIA developpers is reading this post ?

Do you have on your web site a bug report page dedicated to TIA ? People will be please to post bug reports all the day...

Cheers

Maybe not an answer, but a fix.

I downgrade the firmware for every new HMI to the V12 firmware. That will give you the old scrollbar back.

You are right, the scrollbar in the V13 firmware is unusable, especially on the smaller touchscreens.

IBN-Service

 

GRF_TUB

 ...
A dual monitor envirnoment isn't gonna help you because the floating screens are alsmost impossible to edit (since the properties are not tied to this floating screen).

 

Yes, that is exactly one of the (lot of) Problems!

Is this deaster going on with V14, ?

 Have you tried to float the inspector window?

wax

the inspector windows doesnt synchronise well when it's floating 

 where is wrong exactly?

If I had chance to programming S7 1200-1500 with Step 7 5.5,  "I WILL NEVER USE TIA"

I programmer on machine and line buildier company with a lot of customers. Every produced machine needs to be different TIA versions. I have a lot of HDD for versions, service Packs, hotfix, ***s...

SLOW SLOW SLOW. Crash. Crash. Crash.

-Siemens hardwares is great but I guess Siemens lost real software developers team after Step 7 5.5. or export to subcontractors. Because I don't believe the software developed by Step 7 Manager developers.

You can try TIA Portal for this sincerity:

• TIA Portal for engineering efficiency and reduced project costs

I use Step7 v5.5 and S7-300/400 for big projects.

But old WinCC Flexible panels MP377 is out :(

Therefore it is necessary to use Portal with Comfort and Basic panels.

For small non-critical objects I tried S7-1200 v4.* and S7-1500 v1.8 with Portal v13 SP1 ... some time view Aufiderzein in work process.

TIA Portal v14.0 work well with new project with new hafrdware S7-1200 v4.* and S7-1500 v1.8/v2.0.

Aufiderzein view only when open old v13 projects - need recompilation in v13 SP1.

Wait v14 SP1 for Windows 10.

Navnag

Hello All

None of us would disagree with TIA as a concept. It is wonderful to have One single software for all your automation needs. There has been lot of discussions in this forum ( and Outside ) about TIA. Obviously TIA has some great features and for sure wonderful Graphics ( Which make for great Marketing Brochures ). 

To say that TIA is revolutionary because it has all packages integrated is a sort of overkill. Remember SIMATIC Manager too had packages which could be installed integrated ( Though TIA does it more stylishly ) with it e.g.

a) Drives - Drives-ES , Drive Starter  
b) Motion Control - Simotion Scout  
c) HMI - Protool-Pro , WinCC Flexible , WinCC SCADA
d) Switchgear -  Switch ES-Power , SIMOCODE-ES etc
e) Siwarex Weighing systems
e) D7-Sys for Simadyn-D , SIMATIC-TDC

... and This is just a part of the list .. BTW most of these packed are not YET available integrated in TIA !!

But the proof of the pudding, as they say, lies in eating it. Instead of being Subjective, let us judge TIA in an Objective Manner :

Now that TIA Portal has been in existence for more than 5 years , with 4 Major Versions ( 5th already announced ) and innumerable sub versions , service packs and Hotfixes, one would expect that it would be a fairly stable and reliable package with far better capabilities than its predecessors. Let us ask a few questions :


1.  Does TIA Portal actually REDUCE the Overall Software Development and Testing time ?

2.  Does the TIA Portal actually REDUCE the Commissioning / Troubleshooting time ?

3. Is it FULLY Backward Compatible ( I.e. you can easily Convert , upload , Edit and Download programs created by SIMATIC Manager or old versions of TIA)?

4. Are you able to Program / Commission the complete SIMATIC Product range with TIA Portal ( Or even 80% of the Range ) ?

5. Are you able to Integrate all the Contemporary Siemens Drive systems in TIA Portal ?

6. Are we able to Configure all Contemporary HMIs in TIA Portal ?

7. Are all the programs / libraries / commands common for all PLCs in TIA Portal ( A basic premise of having a single package for the complete range ).

8. Does TIA Portal offer you a reliable environment free from fear of Program crashes and corresponding corruption of program files ?

9. Given a choice would you like to use between SIMATIC Manager V5.x and TIA Portal for a project, would prefer to use TIA ?

10. Upgrading TIA versions / Installing service packs is a Painless Procedure.

If you can answer More than 5 questions in 'YES' then TIA Portal is more than Half way there and will will get there soon .. have patience.

If the Answers to more than 5 questions in 'NO' then TIA Portal Team need do do a serious review of things about where they have gone wrong about this product, which has such a wonderful concept. we are not getting there anytime soon.

Cheers
Navnag 

Excellent!

 Navnag.

I just love getting in to the middle of my first TIA project after years of Step7 5.4 - 5.5 only to find out that not only is the breakpoint "feature" broken, BUT HAS BEEN FOR YEARS!!!!!!!

Maybe Siemens needs to hand off the development to the Linux teams instead of Microsoft!

Being a lover of highly modular structures, like in the objects oriented programming, Siemens made an uncomplete step in this direction.

Pointers and indirect addressing are a must when you want to make a software very automated, I mean, less code to write to perform the same things.

Now with the optimized blocks, Siemens suggests to create arrays DB, made of an UDT type. That's fine, good idea to make the indirect addressing safe and easy by means of SCL language.

The bad thing is that in your plant, you have valves "YV712", "YV813A"...etc.

I want to see a genius from Siemens to develop the code, writing instead  "VALVES".V[1].Out, "VALVES".V[2].Out .....etc.  Nobody could understand, neither the same developer.

This problem could have been solved if you gave the chance to create alias. So that "VALVES".V[1] could be referenced as "YV712"

Kind regards,

Ing.Michele Tonon

 You may like AT keyword .... (although it's not available in all blocks)

EDIT: You could also use a constant "YV712" with value of 1 (the index value in your arrays), and then ref your valve using "VALVES".V[YV712]

mito68

This problem could have been solved if you gave the chance to create alias. So that "VALVES".V[1] could be referenced as "YV712" 

Navnag

Hello All

None of us would disagree with TIA as a concept. It is wonderful to have One single software for all your automation needs. There has been lot of discussions in this forum ( and Outside ) about TIA. Obviously TIA has some great features and for sure wonderful Graphics ( Which make for great Marketing Brochures ). 

To say that TIA is revolutionary because it has all packages integrated is a sort of overkill. Remember SIMATIC Manager too had packages which could be installed integrated ( Though TIA does it more stylishly ) with it e.g.

a) Drives - Drives-ES , Drive Starter  
b) Motion Control - Simotion Scout  
c) HMI - Protool-Pro , WinCC Flexible , WinCC SCADA
d) Switchgear -  Switch ES-Power , SIMOCODE-ES etc
e) Siwarex Weighing systems
e) D7-Sys for Simadyn-D , SIMATIC-TDC

... and This is just a part of the list .. BTW most of these packed are not YET available integrated in TIA !!

But the proof of the pudding, as they say, lies in eating it. Instead of being Subjective, let us judge TIA in an Objective Manner :

Now that TIA Portal has been in existence for more than 5 years , with 4 Major Versions ( 5th already announced ) and innumerable sub versions , service packs and Hotfixes, one would expect that it would be a fairly stable and reliable package with far better capabilities than its predecessors. Let us ask a few questions :


1.  Does TIA Portal actually REDUCE the Overall Software Development and Testing time ?

2.  Does the TIA Portal actually REDUCE the Commissioning / Troubleshooting time ?

3. Is it FULLY Backward Compatible ( I.e. you can easily Convert , upload , Edit and Download programs created by SIMATIC Manager or old versions of TIA)?

4. Are you able to Program / Commission the complete SIMATIC Product range with TIA Portal ( Or even 80% of the Range ) ?

5. Are you able to Integrate all the Contemporary Siemens Drive systems in TIA Portal ?

6. Are we able to Configure all Contemporary HMIs in TIA Portal ?

7. Are all the programs / libraries / commands common for all PLCs in TIA Portal ( A basic premise of having a single package for the complete range ).

8. Does TIA Portal offer you a reliable environment free from fear of Program crashes and corresponding corruption of program files ?

9. Given a choice would you like to use between SIMATIC Manager V5.x and TIA Portal for a project, would prefer to use TIA ?

10. Upgrading TIA versions / Installing service packs is a Painless Procedure.

If you can answer More than 5 questions in 'YES' then TIA Portal is more than Half way there and will will get there soon .. have patience.

If the Answers to more than 5 questions in 'NO' then TIA Portal Team need do do a serious review of things about where they have gone wrong about this product, which has such a wonderful concept. we are not getting there anytime soon.

Cheers
Navnag 

It seems Siemens have read my complains....

With new TIA V15 you can write for example this instruction:

#YV712  :=  REF ( "VALVES"."THIS"[1]);

 I dont remember V12 much, but in V13. Open second project as a reference project, and then you can do offline/offline comparisson

FransGvK

On a new project we have opted for a 1200 PLC with Comfort panel, therefore, forced to use the TIA Portal software (V12).

Like most posters here, so far I am NOT impressed.

Although I can see some things that (could) work better or easier in Portal than in Step 7 V5.5/WinCC Flexible 2008, I recognize a lot of problems already listed here.

This one I am missing: It is not possible to compare two offline projects with eachother; only Online/Offline.

I have used V13 Sp1 Upd 9 for over a year for a customer.

Most problems listed above, true and true.
My NEW computer (<1 month) i often sit 2 seconds waiting for a selection to be selected, all these microlagging all the place.

The .backup folder, no use, why even create it?
Often HMI parts breaks causing various ghosting and overlappipng and all kinds of s*** happening. Even a full compile wont solve it, you have to close the project and go into the project and delete the IM folder, so be able to fully compile it and make it normal again.

Tia portal does not check for windows scaling that is default 125%, have that enabled and compile the panels on your computer, then go and download it on a panel that has 100% set, its all effed up, font gets very tiny (like 4pts)

All 43 projects for this plant is between 1 and 5 GB large.

Tia portal uses one seperate FileObjects exe that all compiling, saving, reading in all project passes thru.

The portal uses some movable MSSQL server-esque database, so alot of IO will happen during compiling for example.

I have 2 screens, maximize TIA on one screen, and it overlaps a half centimeter into the next one

We uses libraries for out standard code blocks, and some of them tend to be shown as different than online, 2 seconds after we downloaded it (= 100% same code)

Sometimes we cant go online completely, so we have to first go offline and then go online again, to make it work.

I have to put the projects im working on, on the SSD, else its a lag-fest, mechanical disk wont do with tia portal. TIA is not multithreaded in my view (in case its stated somewhere it is) Many GUI lockups, like when compiling.

In some of the PLCs hat had firmware v1.8.2, just download a small change of code, like changing size of an array in a db, could cause the cpu to go to full stop, losing all non-retain info, if unlucky, this means losing production data in the cpu that can takes 4-5-6 hours to restore manually by tapping in the data etc etc. (v1.8.4. seems to fixed this bug).

Also, if you archive in tia portal, you lose inportant compile information, so next time you dont have information for a delta compilation, which causes a full compile instead. We zip up the project folders via explorer view (7-zip here), and not from tia.

IF i have a cable plugged in on the factory network, and my phone is a wifi hopspot and computer connected to it, even if tia portal which network car it should use, i cant go online unless i disable the wifi network adapter, annoying to say at least.

Did ya'll know that microsoft helped to program this software? ..

I've complained many many time about Siemens software and website and I will have to give them credit for one thing though, they do take feedback seriously when I contact them. They always addressed the issue or at least recognized it and stated they are working on fixing it.

At any rate, the last couple of emails I sent were not to Siemens but to Rockwell and I pretty much told them to eff off. There website is garbage and their technical support is paid support and they every document or manual now requires longing in which often doesn't go too well. When I registered a while back on their site I spent so much time trying and it kept rejecting every address (real addresses) I tried to put it and it only accepted one address at the end which is to this day my registered address with their site, the address of their head office.

I have no hope for this world. We're doomed.

huggy_d1

 

FuriousRage

...

The .backup folder, no use, why even create it?
Often HMI parts breaks causing various ghosting and overlappipng and all kinds of s*** happening. Even a full compile wont solve it, you have to close the project and go into the project and delete the IM folder, so be able to fully compile it and make it normal again.

huggy_d1

Sometimes the backup folder's contents can be copy/pasted right over top of the project's files in the event a project becomes corrupted.  Siemens support may suggest this option in some cases, several of which have been reported in these forums.

 

FuriousRage

I have read else where that this might be the case.

 

Tia portal does not check for windows scaling that is default 125%, have that enabled and compile the panels on your computer, then go and download it on a panel that has 100% set, its all effed up, font gets very tiny (like 4pts)

huggy_d1

Granted it is a bug, but if you KNOW this is a problem create a script that you run before working with HMI screens that reset them to 100%, and afterwards, returns back to 125%.

 

FuriousRage

We just run the computer at 100%, but also need to be sure when a new installation/computer arrives and supposed to work on it, we double check its set to 100%

 

All 43 projects for this plant is between 1 and 5 GB large.

huggy_d1

consider archiving and retrieving your project to compress them

 

FuriousRage

It doesnt make them smaller for us that i have noticed, and archiving loses partial compile information.

 

...

I have 2 screens, maximize TIA on one screen, and it overlaps a half centimeter into the next one

huggy_d1

Is this related to the 125% display adjustment you have set up?  Is this using the display adapter's OEM software or windows?  If it is the display adapter's software, you should create a TIA Portal profile of known settings that perform properly with portal and have the display software switch to that profile's settings when portal launches.

 

FuriousRage
 

Not sure if its a windows issue, or tia portals custom gui. this laptop has nvidia chip and using that.

 

We uses libraries for out standard code blocks, and some of them tend to be shown as different than online, 2 seconds after we downloaded it (= 100% same code)

huggy_d1

do you know if this was fixed in V14 or V15?  If not, have you reported it to Siemens?

 

FuriousRage
 

No idea if its fixed in later versions.

 

Sometimes we cant go online completely, so we have to first go offline and then go online again, to make it work.

huggy_d1

Sometimes I too run into this situation where portal is confused as to whether I am online or offline with a PLC.  Sometimes attempting to go online followed by going offline is the only way I have found that gets it out of this bad state.  Power cycling the plc while I am online gets me in this state rather easily.  Or, if I yank the network cable while I am online does it too.

I have to put the projects im working on, on the SSD, else its a lag-fest, mechanical disk wont do with tia portal. TIA is not multithreaded in my view (in case its stated somewhere it is) Many GUI lockups, like when compiling.

huggy_d1

V15 seems by far much better about these types of things that V13. Have you considered giving it a try?

 

FuriousRage
 

They are planning to move to V15 "later", its not just upgrade and its done, tests has to be done etc.

 

In some of the PLCs hat had firmware v1.8.2, just download a small change of code, like changing size of an array in a db, could cause the cpu to go to full stop, losing all non-retain info, if unlucky, this means losing production data in the cpu that can takes 4-5-6 hours to restore manually by tapping in the data etc etc. (v1.8.4. seems to fixed this bug).

unknown user

The manual for your PLC and tia portal's F1-help describe the conditions where a plc stop/restart is required.  If you study up on this, you can maybe plan around the limitations, and perhaps you can learn to take a DB snapshot before the inevitable PLC restart so you can quickly and EASILY restore values to a DB.  You may also want to include a lot of spare tags in your DBs for future expansion so you can use the "future bit 100.1", "future bit 100.2" "future int 52", "db_array[50] when you really only needed 48" and other opportunities where you can save a restart by simply using the built in "spare" tags and not have to restart.  Just note what tags need proper names on the next restart.

Also, if you archive in tia portal, you lose inportant compile information, so next time you dont have information for a delta compilation, which causes a full compile instead. We zip up the project folders via explorer view (7-zip here), and not from tia.

IF i have a cable plugged in on the factory network, and my phone is a wifi hopspot and computer connected to it, even if tia portal which network car it should use, i cant go online unless i disable the wifi network adapter, annoying to say at least.

huggy_d1

did you know you can adjust the order network adapters are used / searched?  If not, investigate toggling the order of your network adapters when you are using your hotspot, or any other situation where portal wants to hit the wrong network adapter first (or just force it to look at the right one).

Did ya'll know that microsoft helped to program this software? ..

 

I just remembered another bug that happens occationally.

Sometimes the screens gets graphical errors, wierd lines going across the screen, stuff stops working, ghost objects, etc etc. A full compile wont fix this, but removing the IM folder and then full compile corrects the errors.

FuriousRage

I just remembered another bug that happens occationally.

Sometimes the screens gets graphical errors, wierd lines going across the screen, stuff stops working, ghost objects, etc etc. A full compile wont fix this, but removing the IM folder and then full compile corrects the errors.

You forgot to write about all issues on WinCC Professional V13. Server-Client Architecture barely works. This version of SCADA is just a copy paste of code from WinCC Classic, but slower and more inestable. Even the old friend of 'Reset_WinCC' at bin folder is needed to complete shutdown of services when somethings was wrong on the servers (frequently happends).Archives on serves don't work, we are lucky to have other system who handle alarms & events from the process.

If for some reason I need to make a major change on the servers, I learnt the hard way, that is better to make a Compile (Rebuild All),  it take 3-4 hours that compilation, Literally I could go to lunch, have a meeting, check my email, then a coffee break, smoke and it will be at 88% of the compilation when I check it again (true history). I prefer to leave it compiling all night before I need to dowload all project.

I really hope that this change on V15, because at this point I'm thinking to invest on a high-end workstation, 16-core processor (overclocked), 64 Gb RAM, 11 GB video card, SSDs,  just to run TIA Portal.

Online_Diagnostics

 

FuriousRage

I just remembered another bug that happens occationally.

Sometimes the screens gets graphical errors, wierd lines going across the screen, stuff stops working, ghost objects, etc etc. A full compile wont fix this, but removing the IM folder and then full compile corrects the errors.

You forgot to write about all issues on WinCC Professional V13. Server-Client Architecture barely works. This version of SCADA is just a copy paste of code from WinCC Classic, but slower and more inestable. Even the old friend of 'Reset_WinCC' at bin folder is needed to complete shutdown of services when somethings was wrong on the servers (frequently happends).Archives on serves don't work, we are lucky to have other system who handle alarms & events from the process.

If for some reason I need to make a major change on the servers, I learnt the hard way, that is better to make a Compile (Rebuild All),  it take 3-4 hours that compilation, Literally I could go to lunch, have a meeting, check my email, then a coffee break, smoke and it will be at 88% of the compilation when I check it again (true history). I prefer to leave it compiling all night before I need to dowload all project.

I really hope that this change on V15, because at this point I'm thinking to invest on a high-end workstation, 16-core processor (overclocked), 64 Gb RAM, 11 GB video card, SSDs,  just to run TIA Portal.

 more cpu wont help, more ram wont help.

I have a 32gb ram system with i7-6820HQ @ 2.70 GHz, i can only handle 1 project at the time on this one, and it lags like hell, clicking one item, can take 2-3 seconds to get it selected.

TIA is most likly single threaded on most of the parts.
My old computer, i could actually compile 4 project and work on a 5th before it started to lag, on my new with m.2 disk, its laggy with 1 project. The old one had an SSD.

TIA utilizes like 10-20% cpu when doing a full compile on a project / panels.
Its I/O against the disk is in low kb rate according to windows system monitor.