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Troubles with mulitranger 100 and xps10

Created by: Timmcl at: 4/6/2009 3:23 PM (7 Replies)

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4/6/2009 3:23 PM	Rate (0)
Timmcl Posts: 7 Rating: (0)	We have an existing process that has worked finethat is periodically giving weird readings. At one point the operator was adding product to the tank and the level was actually dropping. Once it was finished it shot up to the proper level. The fill rate is less than .1m/min. As the heading said, I have a multirange 100 with an xps 10 transducer. I have connected a pc to the multiranger to try and get an echo profile but it would always timeout and fail to give me an echo. The multiranger sends a 4-20mA signal to the PLC that matches the display, so as close as I can tell it is either the transducer sending an improper signal orthe multiranger interpreting the signal wrong. Does this make sense, and how could I determine which one is failing? Thanks a lot. Tim
Timmcl Posts: 7 Rating: (0)
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4/6/2009 3:35 PM	Rate (0)
playerslight Posts: 1064 Rating: (72)	Hello Timmcl I t sounds like you lost your echo .this could be due to dust heat or if it's a liquid waves One solution might be is take an average reading of multiple samples disregarding any that are way out the probable range
playerslight Posts: 1064 Rating: (72)
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4/6/2009 5:13 PM	Rate (0)
Timmcl Posts: 7 Rating: (0)	The multiranger is used to continuously monitor levels. The operators use the levels to calculate the amount of product to make so we can't disregard meausrements that are off. Also, the only way to tell what the actual level is, is to dip the tank, so there is no easy way for an operator to verify a level before their calcualtions. It could be to do with movement in the liquid, but nothing has changed in the process for the past years, so I can't see why the false readings would come as a result of atmosphere or process conditions now. Any more advice would be great. Thanks.
Timmcl Posts: 7 Rating: (0)
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4/7/2009 9:11 AM	Rate (0)
SonicRanger Posts: 151 Rating: (8)	Hi Timmcl, First of all, making echo profiles is the best way to make things clear. Which software do you use for this, and what are your communication settings? Do you have a handprogrammer to read and change parameters? About the problem itself, I am thinking of 2 possibilities: - echo is lost because of foam, vapour or a filling stream that crosses the measuring path; - the echo is so good that also multiple echoes are present. In this case, the multiranger can trigger on an echo which has twice the distance of the product echo. This can cause a dip in the reading. This can be solved by setting P820 (algorithm) to "F" (first echo). Please tell us more about your application (kind of product, product surface, mounting of sensor etc.),the level on which it occurs,basic parameters, and P805, 806 and 807 at the time of the false reading. BestRegards, SonicRanger.
SonicRanger Posts: 151 Rating: (8)
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4/9/2009 6:30 PM	Rate (0)
Timmcl Posts: 7 Rating: (0)	I am using a laptop with dolphin plus to connect to the multiranger. I do seem to get echo profiles based on the level; as the level is closer to the xps 10 I recieve the profiles, once it has dropped I can't get them. The next time the tank is at a higher level I will set up Dolphin Plus to do a timed measure so that hopefully I can get an idea at what level we can no longer make profiles. I have made a few profiles as well as copied the parameters and attached them. Files ending in "circ" the info was gatherd while the tank was circulating (drawing product from the bottom of the tank and pumping into the top). Files ending in 'nociric" the tank was not being circulated but product was being added to the tank. Files ending in "unload" the tank is being emptied. Is there any info you can direct me to about how to interpret echo profiles? The tranducer is about 4' from where product is filled when circulating (I have been told that tranducers should be 14" from any object for every 10' depth. the tanks is 15' so That should be ample clearance shouldn't it?) Thanks for your time. Tim Attachment alum3.zip (332 Downloads)
Timmcl Posts: 7 Rating: (0)
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4/9/2009 6:34 PM	Rate (0)
Timmcl Posts: 7 Rating: (0)	I forgot to give you the other info you requested. The product in luquid Alum. Its warm, and so ther atmosphere is humid, but I wouldn't say it's particularliy steamy. It is often being filled, emptied, and circulated, but this has never given us issues in the past. It is mounted on a 6" flange, about 4' from the nearest inlet and 4' from the tank wall (though we will be changing that to 2' from the wall and 4' from the inlet soon.) Is there any other info that would help? Tim
Timmcl Posts: 7 Rating: (0)
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4/9/2009 9:19 PM	Rate (0)
Timmcl Posts: 7 Rating: (0)	Here is some more info. The readings have been acurate so I've had a hard time recording the parameters at the time of error. As the tank was filled I recorded some info that I thought may be pertinent. These measurements are taken while the tank is being filled and cuirculated at the same time(with the exception of the few noted at the bottom). The inlet from the circulating pump is about 4' from the xps 10. The inlet from the loading pump is about 10' away. Tank Level - Read distance - Echo Confidence - Echo Strength - Noise - notes on the status bar 6' - 8.30' - 0:27 - 75db - 20:29 7 -8.25 - 0:26 - 75 - 20:30 7.5 - 7.17- 0:26 - 74 - 20:30 8.5 - 6.66 - 0:22 - 77- 21:32 9 - 6.3 -0:27 - 81 - 20:32 9.5 - 6.26 - 0:26 - 83 - 20:31 10 - 5.26 - 0:21 - 74 - 21:34 10.5 - 4.76 - 1:20 - 83- 20:30 11- 2:21 -2:21 - 84 - 18:30 At 10' I turned off the loading pump with these results -0:18- 79- 20:30 After that I turned off the circulating pump as well -0:22- 80- -5.02 "no response from insturment" At 10.75' I turned off the loading pump and kept the circulating pump on and took a few measurements - 1:23-79 - -1:09 "no response from insturment" -2:24 - 87 - -2:08 "no response from insturment"
Timmcl Posts: 7 Rating: (0)
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4/10/2009 7:45 PM	Rate (0)
SonicRanger Posts: 151 Rating: (8)	Hi Timmcl, This seems to be a measurement which should work. Abour the communication problem: increase the time-out of your communications (in dolphin plus). It probably starts to count when the shots still must have been taken. P841 =10, so before making an upload of the long shot, it has to wait for this. Increase it by means of test to 15000 msec. The only echo's I saw in your file were short shots. You can also decrease the amount of long shots (from 10 to 5). Or start testing with P003 = 2. If you have a dynamic process, P003 = 1 may be too slow! About the problem of the level drop: Set P820 to F, and P711 to 1, or P712 to 5:5. Another issue, but probably not the cause of this problem: a noise of 20 dB average is rather high. If this is acoustical noise picked up by the sensor, you can do nothing about it. It is also possible that your signal cable picks up spikes fromyour (frequency controlled?) pump. If I have time, I will analyze your parameter list on faults. Good luck, SonicRanger.
SonicRanger Posts: 151 Rating: (8)	Last edited by: SonicRanger at: 4/10/2009 7:48 PM
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