5/26/2011 12:24 AM | |
Posts: 20 Rating:
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Dear Sirs: Sorry to interrupt you, butI need to know where can I find some help about Chain calibration in the BW500. I have BW500 with three idlers (6 load cells), each load cell 50 lb. I tried to do the chain calibration, but i could not, so I just did the manual span adjust (test material). I bought the chain thinking that this would be much more simple to calibrate, but it did not work. The chain specifucation says: 7,62 Kg/m, 2,134 mt. If you could help em in this, I will appreciuate your help. Best regards. hp. Splitted from Advice for Siemens Load Cell Calibration |
Last edited by: O_Moderator at: 5/26/2011 11:55 AMnew subject after splitting |
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5/26/2011 9:34 AM | |
Joined: 3/21/2006 Last visit: 3/30/2025 Posts: 10239 Rating:
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Hello, Did you check in manual the necessaries step for its calibration? http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/18252870And then to discuss eventually if some step is not proper done or is in fault. Best regards, Hristo MIhalev |
5/27/2011 3:09 PM | |
Posts: 74 Rating:
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Hello hhpp I assume you have a three idler belt scale. Can you advise the idler spacing? Your test chain should extend a minimum of 2 idlers before the first scale idler and 2 idlers after the second scale idler. This would be a length of 7 idler spaces for a 3 idler scale. The chain needs to be fixed in place and the conveyor belt run over complete belt revolutions. But I assume your test chain is too short. If it were not you would: First perform an Initial Zero Then apply the Test Chain and perform an Initial span In each case "accept" any errors reported because you are establishing a starting point. Can you describe what equipment you do have and is it a Siemens (Milltronics) scale or some other make. Perhaps we can offer suggestions using the scale's test weights. Also, please describe the problems you are having such as inconsistencies or errors. Is the conveyor in good condition and are the idlers in good condition? Is the alignment good? Regards, Toppie [ |:) |
5/27/2011 4:51 PM | |
Joined: 5/28/2008 Last visit: 3/24/2025 Posts: 4520 Rating:
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Hello hhpp, Please let us know what are the parameters you have put on the BW500. And please let us know in more details whay you are telling that you can not make span. What is the error message you have on the BW500? Did you tried initial zero (P377) and initial Span calibration (P388)? Hope this helps.
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Ayman Elotaify |
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5/27/2011 5:06 PM | |
Joined: 5/28/2008 Last visit: 3/24/2025 Posts: 4520 Rating:
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Hello hhpp, Please have a look on this video: Milltronics BW500 configurationHope it helps. |
Ayman Elotaify |
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5/30/2011 10:11 PM | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posts: 20 Rating:
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I am very thank full for you help. I already check the 7ML19985DK05 and 04 user manuals and they both are almost the same.Actually We bought this items:3 pieces of 7MH7122-1AG21-1A MSI Belt scale, standard duty, BW=24”, ´A´=33” , 100 lb1 piece of 7MH7161-0AA20 test chain1 piece of MD-256 speed sensor, 1 piece of BW500 integrator, standard communication2 pieces of 7MH7726-1 AR Terminal Box, 4 loacellSeparation between MSI belt scales 1200 mmAccording to your answers, the test chain is too short (2134 mm), I need to have a test chain of 7200 mm at least, I think that’s the problem. I do not understand why our local Siemens dealer gave us that small chain. I have been doing the calibration with the manual span adjust (par 19) material test. I do nay that this wrong, but I would like to improve this because I have some problems with the operation´s guys.My first question:I am going to talk with the local Siemens dealer to see if it is possible to change the test chain for a bigger one. If the dealer is agree with that I would like to know how to do the calibration and the manual calculations to see if the span is right.If it is not possible to change the test chain, so I think there is two ways to do the calibration:1. Do the same thing that I have been doing so far, so my question now ? is it possible to do the manual span adjust changing the units to “Kg/min” and do the test for 1 minute with load to see if the totalizer is same to the totañl weight? I would like to this just for calibration and then change to “t/h” which is the correct unit for operation. Normal rate is 40 t/h (667 Kg/min) so in 1 minute I will have this weight to be compared.2. You could tell me the best way to calibrate the belt scale in a such way that everything looks fine, I mean theorical calibration and real calibration. Here I have the main parameters:
Best regards hp. |
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5/30/2011 11:21 PM | |
Posts: 74 Rating:
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Hello hhpp Re test chain - you may be just able to purchase the extra length and connect is. I think it will be hard to return the piece you have. You'll have to remove the shackles for one end of the existing piece and one end of the new one. Please make sure your wiring is as the drawing attached shows. Confirm that the BW500 indicates the actual speed of the belt. If in error adjust the speed constant so it reads correctly. Make sure the shipping stops are removed.Now you will do a zero. Stop the belt. Apply the correct length test chain making sure it is secure. With the belt running perform a series of span adjustments.There should be very very small or no errors between the span checks. Remove the chain. Recheck the zero. There should be small or no error. Any large variations in error would most likely be due to conveyor, idlers or alignment. To prove the calibration, you should then perform at least three material tests. Each test should be about 6 minutes in length. Catch the material and compare. Tests 1 and two to check for consistency. Then make the adjustment. Test three to verify the adjustment. Then factor the test chain value to the correction. Did you get test weights with your scales? Regards AttachmentA5E0237471901.pdf (600 Downloads) |
Last edited by: Toppie at: 6/2/2011 3:05 AMI should add that most clients will use a test chain when they can''t perform material tests. The test chain will compensate for the initial belt tension, where a test weight calibration will not. If you can perform a material test a test weight calibration with material test would almost always be a better choice that a test chain calibration without a material test. The material test compensates for the tension of the loaded belt. Of course it is important to factor (adjust) the value of the calibration standard (weights or chain) to the tests. Also, it is imperative to begin with a good installation on a good, well maintained conveyor in good condition. [ |:) |
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5/31/2011 2:18 AM | |
Joined: 5/28/2008 Last visit: 3/24/2025 Posts: 4520 Rating:
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Hello hhpp, As you have 3 MSI idlers, so you need a very high precsion. From data sheet it is +/- 0.125%. So, there are some points we have to take into account to achieve your target. 1. Installation
2. Wiring
3.Paramteterization
4. Balancing
5. Zero
6. Span
7. Material test
Hope this helps. |
Last edited by: Ayman Elotaify at: 5/31/2011 2:24 AMAyman Elotaify |
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6/2/2011 6:28 PM | |
Posts: 20 Rating:
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Hello partners, and thanks again.
First of all the wiring is according to the drawing (Siemens dealer gave me the same drawing). The parameters speed are as follows: P14= 1,156 m/s; P15-01=236, 1952; P18 -01 oscilating between 1,103 to t,176 m/s, I think tha´s fine. Stops removed I do not know what to think, the test chain is really expensive, test weights are much cheaper ( test chain like 2000 $, test weight 60$ each). If I decide to buy test weight, what must be the weight?, how many pieces? At the beginning I used the test chain (the smaller one) for span calibration with the P017=7,62 Kg/m. In those time I think that everything was fine, I did three times span and the counts were similar. Then I decided to run the conveyor with material to the mill, the results were really bad because it was reading much more rate than the real rate ( for instance reading 50 t/h when there were just 20 t/h). After this problem the only Think I could do was the test material P019. During the test I found out that the BW500 was reading more than the real rate. So doing and doing the material test I finally found that the P017 was really high. With P017=4,47 the BW500 was just fine ( for instance 500 Kg load(real), ( first test totalizer 502, totalizer=409Kg and so on). Since then I have been working like that, but I do not know if What I did was really right.Is it really necessary to do 6 minutes of test?, what weight should I use?I been doing the test with 400 Kg (blinker), I mean putting load over the belt and catching to compare the total weight with the totalizer ( 5 or 6 tests) . the problem is that I have been doing this in T units, so the totalizer shows 0,400 t. Is it possible to do the test material in Kg units, and then change to T? I do not remember that I said 60 tph (the max. is 90 tph) please give a light. You mean that I could do the balancing with my test chain? How? Yesterday I saw another problem, Let´s say that the belt conveyor is running with 40 tph, then suddenly the feeder stops and the belt conveyor is running empty, but the BW500 does not show “0” immediately , it takes like 5 minutes go to “0”. How could I solve this problem? Thanks again Hp. |
6/2/2011 8:14 PM | |
Posts: 74 Rating:
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Hi hhpp Please check your private messages. I understand your comments about the high cost of the belt scale (and storage reel) and the difficulty of doing long material tests. You have to consider the value of your material being weighed to the importance and cost of an error. A test chain and real may pay for itself in a month if it provides an improvement of only 1/2% depending on the value of your material and the production. You also have to ask youself if you need absolute accuracy or just repeatability. For most processes, repeatability is absolutely necessary whereas accuracy is only secondary. Repeatability is delievered through good equipment and good installation. Accuracy is determiend by calibration and verification. I did a quick calculation with values taken and inferred from this thread. My calculation says that you can calibrate with 3 -18 lb (8.16 kg) test weights, one for each suspension. You cam make your own and determine the starting value as follows. Assume your full scale loading (Max Rate/Belt Speed)is 13.89 kg/m and you have a weighlength (idler spacing) of 1028mm. This represents a weight of 13.89 X 1.028 m = 14.28kg. You would calibrate at about 60%, so a test weight of 14.28 X .6 = 8.57kg would allow you to calibrate at 8.57 / 1.028 = 8.34kg/m Or a 10 kg weight would allow you to claibrate at 10kg / 1.028 m= 9.73 kg/m. Note you would neet 1 weight per scale and the weights should be identical. This calibration (if a good installation) should give you stated repeatability. To confirm the calibration, you can run representative material over the scale and weigh it. If six minutes is not practical, 1 minute will have to suffice. If you cannot do this and you have small sized material, you can run the conveyor and while it is showing a constant Load, stop it and clean all of the material off the belt for (as an example) 10 m and weight it. The mass /10 will give you the loading in kg/m. Compare. Yes If doing the running material tests you should adjust your totalizer resolution to as fine as allowed. BTW I did all the calculations at a full scale of 60 tph since you were running at 40 tph. For 90, the same loadcells are calculated. Your Design Load 100% will become 20.83 kg per m. and using 2 8.2 kg weights per suspension will allow you to calibrate at 15.89 kg/m. I hope this helps Toppie [ |:) AttachmentCalcs.zip (548 Downloads) |
Last edited by: Toppie at: 6/2/2011 8:21 PMSorry - To balance the loadcells you need equal size test weights. One for each suspension Balancing is recommended for maximum accuracy as it aligns the gain curves of each load cell. They are pretty close out of the box. If you are taking 5 minutes for the Rate to go to zero on rate, you probably have your display damping P080 set way too high or if viewing Rate on mA P220. A value of 10 is a god starting point. Note that if viewing load, Load will report anytime there is something on the belt. |
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