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Considerations about expansion of a plant

Created by: amateur at: 7/1/2009 11:43 AM (7 Replies)

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7/1/2009 11:43 AM	Rate (0)
amateur Posts: 145 Rating: (3)	Good morning, There is a plant with a S7-400 system. We have undertaken a small expansion to the specific plant, and we will set up a S7-400H system. We want this small expansion to communicate with the basic system, which is not H-system. So, we have a few questions regarding this merger : 1. First of all, is it possible to merge the basic, existing S7-400 system with a S7-400H system? a. if yes ==> what do we have to consider before attempting this merger? which are the basic conditions so as to achieve such a merger and which are the common mistakes that we have to avoid? b. if not ==> How can we upgrade the basic S7-400 system, so as to have a smooth communication between the already existing and the new, small H-system? 2. What else do we have to consider before attempting this configuration? Any ideas, tips and guidance are welcome. Thanks in advance for your time
amateur Posts: 145 Rating: (3)
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7/1/2009 12:24 PM	Rate (0)
dchartier Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 9/27/2006 Last visit: 11/18/2024 Posts: 12296 Rating: (2691)	Hello amateur; It all depends on how you define "merger". Communication of data between two systems is always possible, and interlocking data can be exchanged between the old system and the new S7-400H. If that is the extent of your needs, it should be relatively easy to implement. The S7-400H Fault-Tolerant Systems manual discusses the issue of communications between a S7-400H redundant system and a non-redundant CPU quite in depth. Here is a link: http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/1186523 And here is how the subject is introduced: *8.5 Communications via S7 Connections* *Communications with standard systems* Fault-tolerant communications are not possible between fault-tolerant and standard systems. The following examples illustrate the actual availability of the communicating systems. *Configuration* Standard connections are configured with STEP 7. *Programming* If standard communications are used on a fault-tolerant system, all the communication functions apart from “global data communications” can be used for them.The standard communication SFBs are used for programming communications with STEP 7. If you had thought about a different level of integration between the 2 systems, maybe you could provide more details. Hope this helps, Daniel Chartier
	Last edited by: dchartier at: 7/1/2009 12:54 PM Last edited by: dchartier at: 7/1/2009 12:25 PM
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7/1/2009 1:44 PM	Rate (0)
amateur Posts: 145 Rating: (3)	Ηello Daniel Chartier and thanks for your reply, The small, new expansion consists of a SIMATIC PC Station with one Cp1613 (two path redundancy - single bus) and a SIMATIC H-Station with 2 racks, 2 CPUs each with a CP. I also attach a sketch 1. Which are the necessary steps in order to establish an exchange of data between the old system and the new H-System? 2. What other information should we look for so as to have a complete overview of the desired outcome Hope we have provided enough details. with regards Attachment Plant_with_expansion.JPG (235 Downloads)
amateur Posts: 145 Rating: (3)
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7/1/2009 2:14 PM	Rate (0)
dchartier Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 9/27/2006 Last visit: 11/18/2024 Posts: 12296 Rating: (2691)	Hello amateur; At the risk of sounding repetative, please follow the link provided earlier, study the section 8.5 & following as suggested, decide what type of configuration would fit your application (look at figure 8-10 for example), then look at section 8.5.4 that dicusses different communications blocks that can help you out. Then when you have specific issues with your chosen configuration, come back to the forum for more help. Daniel Chartier

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7/2/2009 2:19 PM	Rate (0)
amateur Posts: 145 Rating: (3)	Hello Daniel Chartier, From the suggested link the only configuration that is similar to our case is the one that the pc is used as gateway. However, in our case we want the single-channel system to communicate directly with our H-system and not through a second CP1613. One more inquiry: The blocks FB14 ("GET") and FB15 ("PUT") are being programmed in the already existing S7-400 system or in the new S7-400H system? Thanks in advance for your time, With regards
amateur Posts: 145 Rating: (3)
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7/2/2009 2:38 PM	Rate (0)
Krish Silver Member Joined: 5/24/2007 Last visit: 4/24/2024 Posts: 284 Rating: (27)	Hi Amateur For the configuration you have provided , you need a redconnect package on the Server consisting of 2 CP1613 cards and one redconnect license. But this means only 2 network connections . How will the 3rd network from the existing system connect? Best is to have a switch to connect to all the CPs. Krish

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7/2/2009 3:05 PM	Rate (0)
amateur Posts: 145 Rating: (3)	Hi Krish, Is it mandatory the communication between the already-existing and the new system to take place through the pc? Isn't it possible for the 2 systems to communicate directly, through the previously mentioned blocks? with regards
amateur Posts: 145 Rating: (3)
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7/6/2009 3:46 PM	Rate (0)
Krish Silver Member Joined: 5/24/2007 Last visit: 4/24/2024 Posts: 284 Rating: (27)	Hi Amateur No you can communicate between the 2 systems using S7 Redundant communication . The point which you should be worried about the communication between HMI and the PLCs. If you could connect all of them through one switch to make sure all communications are possible to each CPU, this should work fine. Krish

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