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S7-400H mounting Rack

Created by: Fida jlassi at: 7/10/2013 12:18 PM (19 Replies)

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7/11/2013 12:33 PM	Rate (0)
S7 AUTOMAN Posts: 515 Rating: (56)	hi, find the attached architecture which might help you. Attachment S7 412-5H ARCHITECTURE.pdf (898 Downloads)
S7 AUTOMAN Posts: 515 Rating: (56)
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7/11/2013 12:39 PM	Rate (0)
Amit_86 Posts: 1750 Rating: (272)	c Fida jlassi Hi, Thank you guys for your help. For your information: I am using the "hardware configuration-TIA selection tools", I/O modules' Options in this tool when choosing the S7-400H are the S7-400 modules(SM421, SM422, Sm431, SM432), is this choice correct? Then why is not posible to mount the I/O modules to the same S7-400 rack? please clarify. Another point that still not clear for me, concerning the redundancy with the S7-400H, should I use 2 CPU and 2 power supply or 2 CPU and 4 power supply ( 2 redundant power supply for each CPU) ? Please help, it's an urgent matter. Hello, you cannot connect signal modules(SM421, SM422, Sm431, SM432) directly on S7400H. With S7400H System , it is compulsory to use ET200 Modules. Otherwise What is the meaning of H System? While Selecting S7400H System , you don't have to order PS,CPU Separately. you have order Bundle MLFB which comprises of two no. of PS,CPU & CP. I suggest you to contact your local Siemens Person in this case. He will guide you in better way for right product selection in your case depending on your application & requirement. Hope this helps.
Amit_86 Posts: 1750 Rating: (272)
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7/11/2013 12:42 PM	Rate (0)
AMAZINGAHMED Posts: 719 Rating: (88)	Fida jlassi Hi, Thank you guys for your help. For your information: I am using the "hardware configuration-TIA selection tools", I/O modules' Options in this tool when choosing the S7-400H are the S7-400 modules(SM421, SM422, Sm431, SM432), is this choice correct? Then why is not posible to mount the I/O modules to the same S7-400 rack? please clarify. Another point that still not clear for me, concerning the redundancy with the S7-400H, should I use 2 CPU and 2 power supply or 2 CPU and 4 power supply ( 2 redundant power supply for each CPU) ? Please help, it's an urgent matter. The modules you have are that available for S7-400 rack. They are OK to use. Who said that it is imposiible to have I/O modules on the same rack???... It is totally possible. Just your rack will not be sufficient to hold all your modules, so you will need to have another "extra" expansion rack to mount the rest of the modules. You can have 2CPUs+2PS or 2CPUs+4PS(each 2 are redundant). You just have to make sure the rack and the power supply supports redundant power supplies)
AMAZINGAHMED Posts: 719 Rating: (88)
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7/11/2013 12:56 PM	Rate (0)
S7 AUTOMAN Posts: 515 Rating: (56)	AMAZINGAHMED Fida jlassi Hi, Thank you guys for your help. For your information: I am using the "hardware configuration-TIA selection tools", I/O modules' Options in this tool when choosing the S7-400H are the S7-400 modules(SM421, SM422, Sm431, SM432), is this choice correct? Then why is not posible to mount the I/O modules to the same S7-400 rack? please clarify. Another point that still not clear for me, concerning the redundancy with the S7-400H, should I use 2 CPU and 2 power supply or 2 CPU and 4 power supply ( 2 redundant power supply for each CPU) ? Please help, it's an urgent matter. The modules you have are that available for S7-400 rack. They are OK to use. Who said that it is imposiible to have I/O modules on the same rack???... It is totally possible. Just your rack will not be sufficient to hold all your modules, so you will need to have another "extra" expansion rack to mount the rest of the modules. You can have 2CPUs+2PS or 2CPUs+4PS(each 2 are redundant). You just have to make sure the rack and the power supply supports redundant power supplies) hi amazingahmed, is what u suggested in your above reply suitable for an H system?
S7 AUTOMAN Posts: 515 Rating: (56)
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7/11/2013 1:01 PM	Rate (1)
Ayman Elotaify Diamond Member Joined: 5/28/2008 Last visit: 1/14/2026 Posts: 4522 Rating: (843)	Fida jlassi Hi, Thank you guys for your help. For your information: I am using the "hardware configuration-TIA selection tools", I/O modules' Options in this tool when choosing the S7-400H are the S7-400 modules(SM421, SM422, Sm431, SM432), is this choice correct? Then why is not posible to mount the I/O modules to the same S7-400 rack? please clarify. .................. Hello, If you are willing to use S7-400 IOs, please note the following points: You shouled have Redundnat IOs. Or you should use Y-Links and taking into consideration its limitations. Keep in mind that each CPU is working with its IOs only. Thus because there is nor RED-Bundles in S7-400. Please see figure 3 (Redundant Connection) in page 3 of the attached file. It's the most near configuration to your case, but after replacing ET200M by S7-400 racks. I prefer to use ET200M (with RED-Bundles) to achieve highest avilability. So if Certain CPU fails, the other CPU will still be able to connect to all IOs. And you will still have an option to work with Redundant IOs / Non-Redudnant IOs without needing to work with Y-Links. Fida jlassi Another point that still not clear for me, concerning the redundancy with the S7-400H, should I use 2 CPU and 2 power supply or 2 CPU and 4 power supply ( 2 redundant power supply for each CPU) ? Please help, it's an urgent matter. Two Options are possible: You Have S7400H It can work using 2 PS module (One PS for Each CPU rack) + 2 CPUs It can work using 4 PS module in redundant operation (Two PS for Each CPU rack) + 2 CPUs. Please note that standard PS is different than PS suitable for redundant operations. Here's bellow an example: 6ES7407-0KA02-0AA0 SIMATIC S7-400, POWER SUPPLY PS407: 10A, WIDERANGE, 120/230V UC, 5V DC/10A 6ES7407-0KR02-0AA0 SIMATIC S7-400, POWER SUPPLY PS407; 10A, WIDERANGE, 120/230V UC, 5V DC/10A, FOR REDUNDANT USE Hope this helps. Attachment brochure_simatic-controller_en.pdf (722 Downloads)
	Last edited by: Ayman Elotaify at: 7/11/2013 1:02 PM Ayman Elotaify
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This contribution was helpful to 1 thankful Users dchartier

7/11/2013 1:04 PM	Rate (0)
AMAZINGAHMED Posts: 719 Rating: (88)	shazin AMAZINGAHMED Fida jlassi Hi, Thank you guys for your help. For your information: I am using the "hardware configuration-TIA selection tools", I/O modules' Options in this tool when choosing the S7-400H are the S7-400 modules(SM421, SM422, Sm431, SM432), is this choice correct? Then why is not posible to mount the I/O modules to the same S7-400 rack? please clarify. Another point that still not clear for me, concerning the redundancy with the S7-400H, should I use 2 CPU and 2 power supply or 2 CPU and 4 power supply ( 2 redundant power supply for each CPU) ? Please help, it's an urgent matter. The modules you have are that available for S7-400 rack. They are OK to use. Who said that it is imposiible to have I/O modules on the same rack???... It is totally possible. Just your rack will not be sufficient to hold all your modules, so you will need to have another "extra" expansion rack to mount the rest of the modules. You can have 2CPUs+2PS or 2CPUs+4PS(each 2 are redundant). You just have to make sure the rack and the power supply supports redundant power supplies) hi amazingahmed, is what u suggested in your above reply suitable for an H system? Yes it is suitable. But in standard practice (in my work) we use rack UR2H with CPUs and PSs for the main S7-400 rack. Then we use S7-300 I/O modules mounted beside ET200M high feature redundant (name is RED-BUNDLE) where every rack can hold up to 12 I/O modules. RED BUNDLE is two IM153-2 beside each other which allows redundant communication. You can achieve Rack-To-Rack redundancy, Module-To-Module redundancy or just use the rack without a redundant peer. We rarely use the S7-400 I/O modules.
AMAZINGAHMED Posts: 719 Rating: (88)
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7/11/2013 1:07 PM	Rate (0)
Ayman Elotaify Diamond Member Joined: 5/28/2008 Last visit: 1/14/2026 Posts: 4522 Rating: (843)	shazin AMAZINGAHMED Fida jlassi Hi, Thank you guys for your help. For your information: I am using the "hardware configuration-TIA selection tools", I/O modules' Options in this tool when choosing the S7-400H are the S7-400 modules(SM421, SM422, Sm431, SM432), is this choice correct? Then why is not posible to mount the I/O modules to the same S7-400 rack? please clarify. Another point that still not clear for me, concerning the redundancy with the S7-400H, should I use 2 CPU and 2 power supply or 2 CPU and 4 power supply ( 2 redundant power supply for each CPU) ? Please help, it's an urgent matter. The modules you have are that available for S7-400 rack. They are OK to use. Who said that it is imposiible to have I/O modules on the same rack???... It is totally possible. Just your rack will not be sufficient to hold all your modules, so you will need to have another "extra" expansion rack to mount the rest of the modules. You can have 2CPUs+2PS or 2CPUs+4PS(each 2 are redundant). You just have to make sure the rack and the power supply supports redundant power supplies) hi amazingahmed, is what u suggested in your above reply suitable for an H system? Dear both Shazin and Ahmed, To finalize this subject. You can use the S7-400 IO modules with S7-400H but with less avilability than going to ET200M and Red-bundles. The proof is you can use same rach UR2-H for both centralized and distributed solutions. 6ES7400-2JA00-0AA0 SIMATIC S7-400H, UR2-H RACK, CENTRALIZED AND DISTRIBUTED WITH 2 X 9 SLOTS. You can use not only ET200M or S7-400 IOs, but also ET200S. ET200iSP,...etc but after adding Y-Links. You can see configuration examples in my attachment of previous post. Hope it will helps.
	Last edited by: Ayman Elotaify at: 7/11/2013 1:11 PM Ayman Elotaify
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This contribution was helpful to 2 thankful Users Saggy S7 AUTOMAN

7/11/2013 3:52 PM
William_B Posts: 5225 Rating: (1204)	If all else fails.. good our new friend contact one of you to contract someone for a paid consultation? Seriously though.. Thanks to all guys for your input.
William_B Posts: 5225 Rating: (1204)
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7/12/2013 12:12 PM	Rate (0)
SMHZ Posts: 315 Rating: (9)	H system can be used with the Distributed IOs, regarding redundancy it depends how you achieve it either by signal splitting or separate connections. .
SMHZ Posts: 315 Rating: (9)
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7/22/2013 8:39 AM	Rate (0)
gajanan kulkarni Posts: 12 Rating: (0)	Dear Fida If you configure S7400H system, it requires two CPU for Redundancy. If you use S7400 series modules which can be placed along with S7 CPU. and modules which are placed in one CPU's rack can no longer accessible to redundant CPU and if the CPU with which modules are connected fails whole purpose of H system fails. hence it is necessary to connect I/O modules on remote rack which are accessible to both CPU's on profibus/profinet. In case of remote I/O if one CPU fails redundant CPU takes over and IO remains accessible to other CPU also and process will keep running without interruption.
gajanan kulkarni Posts: 12 Rating: (0)
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