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About S5 PLCs

Created by: Pandiani at: 10/25/2007 11:32 AM (6 Replies)

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10/25/2007 11:32 AM	Rate (0)
Pandiani Bronze Member Joined: 10/31/2005 Last visit: 9/4/2024 Posts: 366 Rating: (31)	Hello to all, can someone explain me what is crucial difference between S5 115U and S5 115 F PLC? I know that letter F reprensents "fail safe" characteristic of a PLC, but I don't know whatCPU has comparing with 115U that makes it fail safe? What term fail safe means in this case? Thank you very much
	Last edited by: Pandiani at: 25.10.2007 11:33
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10/25/2007 7:20 PM	Rate (0)
Late Platinum Expert Joined: 1/7/2006 Last visit: 11/17/2023 Posts: 2705 Rating: (318)	Pandiani can someone explain me what is crucial difference between S5 115U and S5 115 F PLC? I know that letter F reprensents "fail safe" characteristic of a PLC, but I don't know whatCPU has comparing with 115U that makes it fail safe? What term fail safe means in this case? Dear Pandiani, The 115F-CPU's are with two and coupled together with a IM324, that is what it makes Failsafe. Also the I/O-cards are together for plus and minus detection. All the cards are checking each other over the firmware of the 115F CPU. The software is initialized with COM 115F, also the diagnostics are read out with COM 115F.
	I hope that the answer will help, if you have still questions, don't hesitate to ask me. All the best, Late Never say never, think in solutions, not in trouble......
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10/27/2007 4:25 PM	Rate (0)
Pandiani Bronze Member Joined: 10/31/2005 Last visit: 9/4/2024 Posts: 366 Rating: (31)	Thank you for your reply Late, Late The 115F-CPU's are with two and coupled together with a IM324, that is what it makes Failsafe. Does this mean that these two PLCs work in redundancy or it means that both of them needs to produce same I/O result in order specific action to be performed (for example activating a relay or similar)? Late Also the I/O-cards are together for plus and minus detection. All the cards are checking each other over the firmware of the 115F CPU. I'm not familiar with this, can you explain a little bit further what + and - detection means? Can you give me any example? Looking forward to your answer

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10/27/2007 10:24 PM	Rate (1)
Late Platinum Expert Joined: 1/7/2006 Last visit: 11/17/2023 Posts: 2705 Rating: (318)	Pandiani The 115F-CPU's are with two and coupled together with a IM324, that is what it makes Failsafe. 1. Does this mean that these two PLCs work in redundancy or it means that both of them needs to produce same I/O result in order specific action to be performed (for example activating a relay or similar)? Also the I/O-cards are together for plus and minus detection. All the cards are checking each other over the firmware of the 115F CPU. 2. I'm not familiar with this, can you explain a little bit further what + and - detection means? Can you give me any example? Dear Pandiani. The answers to your questions are below: 1. It is NO redundancy, the redundancy is for detecting a error in the Failsafe-I/O or in other parts of the CPU (e.g. Memory, EPROM, BESY, etc...). 2. From a output card (the P-DO) is put power on two different switches that are read-back to two different input cards. For the F-DO there are four cards involved, two output cards that give a plus and a minus and two input cards (P-DI)that are checking crossover if the output works well. Please download the handbooks of the AG S5-115F if you need more detailed information. SIMATICS5-115F Programmable Controller Manual Volume 1/2 SIMATIC S5-115F Programmable Controller Manual Volume 2/2 If you have any questions, then please ask them and I will try to answer them
	I hope that the answer will help, if you have still questions, don't hesitate to ask me. All the best, Late Never say never, think in solutions, not in trouble......
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10/29/2007 8:23 AM	Rate (0)
Pandiani Bronze Member Joined: 10/31/2005 Last visit: 9/4/2024 Posts: 366 Rating: (31)	Thank you for your answers Late, I'm begining to understand the story now... I'm looking about wiring examples in the manuals. For example, figure 10-14, type 9/10 DQ, intermittent/non-intermittent... show how fail safe function is done. I wonder about one thing: is same functionallity can be done using other S5 PLCs with approriate wiring and program? Is S5-115F, fail safe just because it has TUV certificate, while internal structure and I/O modules are same as with others? Is the real difference cpu and the way it is programmed?

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11/20/2007 5:08 PM	Rate (0)
Pandiani Bronze Member Joined: 10/31/2005 Last visit: 9/4/2024 Posts: 366 Rating: (31)	Late, can you tell me if there are any differences in the inner structure (hardware) of S5 115U and S5 115F? I understand that fail safe is ensured by appropriate wiring and would like to know if more things are involved here... Cheers!

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11/21/2007 10:14 AM	Rate (0)
Navnag Platinum Expert Joined: 11/21/2007 Last visit: 9/25/2024 Posts: 2325 Rating: (308)	Dear Pandiani As you know S5-115F is a fail safe system must not be confused with a H ( Hot Standby ) system. S5-115F must always have two S5-115F CPUs with redundent I/Os Buth subunits operate synchronously with the same user program. They compare their input, output and data cyclically. The operation of outputs is like an AND of both controllers. This is ensured by external interconnection of sensors and actuators. In case an error is detected various responses are programmable e.g. entire unit switched to STOP, only defective components de-activated or other user programmable responses in COM-115F Regards Naveen Nagar
	There is no such thing as the last bug in a program There are no stubborn bugs, There are only stubborn Debuggers.
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