Hi,

better ask Siemens specialist advice for for the most suitable solution.

Regards

Hello;

During the discontinuation phase for S5 CPUs (latest around the year 2000), this was a common request for us. To transform a S5 rack into a Profibus-DP slave, you needed to add a IM 308-C in every rack and configure it as a Profibus slave. Then you would integrate them to your Profibius master, a CP 443-5 for a S7-400 CPU for example.

The S5 CPUs and equipment has since then been completely discontinued and removed from Siemens offwrings. Look at the attachment below showing the IM 308C available only as a spare part from Siemens.

You could use the part number (6ES5308-3UC21) to search in PLC refurbishers or on Ebay to try and locate used IM 308-c modules on the market.

For any other options, I would propose you accept the earlier suggestion of contacting Siemens techs, through a Support Request:

https://sieportal.siemens.com/en-ca/mysieportal/support-requests/create

Hope this helps,

Daniel Chartier

Hello;

You keep mentioni9nmg the CP 443-1 and Profinet for your S5 migration, thios is not possible. Profinet was built and marketed after the discontinuation of the s5 family of PLCs, there is no Profinet interface for the S5 to my knowledge.

The option I discussed yesterday, using Profibus-DP, was the easiest path to integrate S5 modules to a S7 CPU, and it did require adaptation of the S5 analog module formats to the s7 standard during programming.

There were other paths available at the time:

- the IM 163-2 is a S7 module (fits in the S7 rack) that can connect to a IM 314 in the S5 racks, with a special cable (721 type) that collects the s5 module data serially and brings it back to the S7 CPU. So it resembles the cabling that you have on the S5 side at the moment. Look at the chapter on the IM 163-2 in the S7-400 Module data in the following link:

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/ca/en/view/1117740/20050422155

- anoither option (more expensive) is the S5 adapter casings that allow you to insert a S5 module in a S7-400 rack, individually. It was not a well-liked solution when we were doig migrations from S5 to S7 at the time, but some of ouir clients opted for it:

https://sieportal.siemens.com/en-cl/support/forum/posts/s5-adapter-module-configured-in-s7-400/183608

I strongly suggest you contact Sie,mens Support for any further information on thios subject, especially if you need to fion d out if any of these solutions are still available today.

Hope this helps,

Daniel Chartier

Hello;

If you want to eliminate our S5 racks and IO modules, then you can use S7-400 and S7-300 euqipment to recreate your PLC system.

You can use Profibus-DP or Profinet between S7-400 and S7-300 PLCs, generally you would not need CP or IM cards if you select the CPUs with the correct interfaces. S7-300 systems are less expensive that S7-400 CPUs and IOs.

Your original design shows 3 locations: 

- CP2 Main Panel, with one CPU, with 4 DI modules and 3 DO modules

- CP2 Desk Panel, with 2 DI modules and  4 DO modules

- MCC1 PLC Panel, with 6 DI modules and 4 DO modules

Here is an possible configuration for S7-300 CPUs and IO modules.

You can look at the  S7-300 data in the following Siemens industry Mall link, a S7-317-2PNM/DP was selected to give you the choice of Profibus-DP or Profinet:

https://sieportal.siemens.com/en-ca/products-services/10044647?tree=CatalogTree

DI and DO modules in the S7-300 family (32 DI/32 DO) can be seen here:

https://sieportal.siemens.com/en-ca/products-services/5000055?tree=CatalogTree&tech1=2#productVariants

https://sieportal.siemens.com/en-ca/products-services/5000056?tree=CatalogTree&tech1=3

Since you did not give us any detail on the DI/DO modules you would need to replace on your S5 setup, I cannot give you more details on an equivalent S7-300 replacement. Provide complete information if you want more info.

Hope this helps,

Daniel Chartier

Hello;

You have a main CPU, S7-414-3XJ04-0AB0, which you show with a power supply, your CPU and a CP 443-1 (which can act as a Profionet IO Controller (master). Your picture shows no DI or DO cards, how do you plan on using these, on the main rack or on remote racks, either s7-400 or S7-300 based?

If your question is: how can I communicate between my main S7-400 CPU and my old existing S5 remote racks, you cannot use the old s5 IMs, they are not compatible with S7-400 CPUs. Instead of the old S5 serial IM cables, you would need to switch to a network link, either Profibus or Profinet. As I stated before, there are no interface modules on Profinet for S5 racks that I know of, so that would be a bust. Your CPU has 2 different Profibus interfaces (one MPI/DP, one DP) that you could use, if you are able to locate the IM 318-C Profibus interfaces needed in the S5 racks. Difficult, but still possible if you are willing to search the Internet (refurbishers or Ebay).

Another (preferable) option would be to migrate the S5 racks themselves, you could easily create either  ET 200M (Profibus or Profinet racks), based on S7-300 family equipment, without CPUs. Then the I/O configured on these remote ET 200M racks could be controlled with your main CPU over the network you choose.

Say you want to create an ET 200M Profinet remote rack for your system: you would need a S7-300 power supply (6ES7307-1BA00-0AA0), a mounting rail to support the modules , say a 6ES7390-1AF30-0AA0. You would of course need a IM 153-4 (6ES7153-4AA01-0XB0) Profinet module to turn the rack into a Profinet IO Device (slave), and then up to 12 IO modules taken from the S7-300 catalog (earlier I showed you part numbers for 32 DI and 32 DO modules).

Since Profinet is based on TCP/IP networking standards, standards Ethernet cable (CAT 5) camn be used,  butthe maximum length of a segment is 100 m, for your furthest rack (120 m) you will have to integrate an unmanaged switch to increase the distance. Profibus extends much further, at 500 kB/s the length of a segment can be up to 400 m.

Have a look at this ET 200M manual, it will provide information on Profibus-DP and Profinet IO networking with S7-300 modules.

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/ca/en/view/1142798

This link contains a video showing how to configure a Profinet network in Step 7 v 5.x, it might probably help you:

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/ca/en/view/109476499

When you have decided on the equipment you need to create your networks, show us your bill of materials, we can probabbly help you vet it.

Hope this helps,

Daniel Chartier

Hello;

I think I have deciphered the part number of the CP 443-1 you are using, from one of the earliers posts you published. When you are requesting help on the forum, part numbers are an extremely important  information you must provide us with, since the capâcities of the modules evolves over time, and the modules you have might not be able to do the job.

Am i correct that it is a 6GK7443-1EX11-0XE0 in your original picture? How about the other CP 443-1 that you would put in the remote racks, are they he same model?

If this is the case, please open the file in the attachment below, it shows your data sheet for this model of CP 443-1. Notice that it states nowhere that it can handle Profinet exchanges. It cannot be a Profinet IO controller or a Profinet IO Device, that could allow you to read and write the DI and DO modules in your remote racks.

The CP 443-1 you are trying to use was cancelled in 2009, which means that it is not even available as a spare part from Siemens, and that no documentation for it can be located on the siemens site (I had to search the web to locate that datasheet). It was never active when profinet was introduced, and cannot be used as a Proinet interface.

Just for your information, the successor product for your CP 443-1, the 6ES7443-1EX31-0XE0, was able to act as a Profinet IO Controller, as per its datasheet. But it still could not be a Profinet IO Device...

At this point, I have exhasusted the help I can provide to you on this project. If no one else on the forum steps up to add suggestions, I think that contacting Siemens techs through a Support Request would be your only choice. When you do so, provide them with a complete description of the system you want to build, including all part numbers for the CPU and CPs, if you want realistic answers.

Hope this helps,

Daniel Chartier

Hello;

First point, we will never propose "IM cards" for your application. S5 interface modules and cables to connect expansion I/O racks will never work with a S7-400 CPU, S7-400 IMs are not compatible with s5 systems. See this page from the S7-400 Module Data manual for information on S7-400 IMs:

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/ca/en/view/1117740/94331293835

The only solution we can propose is based on network connections between the S7-400 CPU in your new system and ,Profibus or Profinet (and there are no interface modules for Profinet on S5 systems).

But first, to clear up any issues, please provide us with a complete list of all part numbers of the S7-400 system you have on hand, Power supply, CPU, CPs, IO modules... so we can evaluate the capabilities of each, since the S7-400 you want to use appears tpo be outadted, and mioght not be able to accept certain configurations.

Until you provide us with such a list, I will nto be able to support you any longer.

Another option would be to contact Siemens techs with a Support Request as suggested earlier, add that same list to the request, and explaining very clear;ly waht you want to do with yoru S7 equipoment.

Hope this helps,

Daniel Chartier