Hello, 

I have posted a few times before, but I have a older EMCO 320 Lathe, with the Siemens Sinumerik 810T GA3 Control.  At a point in the past, this machine lost it's parameters, however was successfully re-commissioned using the original data.  However, I'm still having some minor issues with getting it to run successfully.  I'm a machine operator, not a service technician. 

In the machine's documentation, it states that Machine Zero is at the lathe's spindle nose.  It also states that the Tool Zero is on the face of the turret.  And naturally X0 should be when the toolholder (with a drill) is exactly aligned to the center of the spindle.  

But....

I have found that those values are not quite correct.  The Machine Zero is actually about .331" INSIDE the spindle (-Z direction), and the Turret Zero seems a little off too (.28").  And when a drill is loaded, the turret is slightly out of alignment (.083")  I have figured out how to work around these problems, however it's mighty inconvenient.  

According to the EMCO manual the Machine Zero "is set at the works" and can't be adjusted.  Or can it?  It would seem that these values should be able to be adjusted in the parameters, correct?  Does anyone know what parameters correspond with these values?  Since this machine was re-commissioned with the original files, I would expect that all the Zero values would be accurate, but I've checked repeatedly, and it's just not.  But I suspect there is some way to adjust these values, I just don't know what it is. 

Thanks in advance for any help you're able to give. 

Very interesting, thank you for the prompt response.  I agree with you to a certain extent, but from a practical standpoint, I do need to know where M0, T0, and X0 are... the reason is because it seems to be the only way to set tool and stock offsets.  But the commissioning documentation you provided is helpful, even though it's difficult to understand.

But it would appear that perhaps it is possible to change these reference points.  From this document it appears that the scales are in MS units, which is  2 units of position control resolution.  I think this is described in Section 8-33.  To your point, I think the Machine Zero is not critical, if I can adjust the XMR and ZMR values shown on page 160.  ON page 161, it looks like adjusting 244* in either + or - adjusts this value?  Is MD 2040 my X axis, and 2041 my Z axis?  (or maybe 2042 is my Z?)  The units of resolution of my scale is .0001" so I think I might be able to use math to figure out the value I need to change it.  Also of interest is value 248* because this would allow adjustment of the optical toolsetter.  I have an optical toolsetter, but i have not been able to use it successfully because the values were always off.  Now i suspect that the XMR and ZMR values are to blame for this.  But it looks like you set the distance from Machine Zero to the optical toolsetter position using the same kind of method?  How does one establish the distance from Machine zero to the toolsetter position?  I guess that the toolsetter would have to be set in Z for length, but possibly also in X?

I appreciate the response, this is a rather complicated problem, because adjusting any one value seems like it's going to throw everything else off.

I've checked the documentation and found some interesting info.  The  %TEA1 PLC data originaly showed:

N2400 =40403
N2401 =175363

BUT there's a bunch of handwritten notes.  Over time, these values have been adjusted a few times to:

N2400 =40750
N2401 =175363

By my understanding, these values are actually changing the XMR and ZMR values. But when I use a .250" drill to drill a hole at X0, it drills slightly oversize to about .257'... which suggests that the X=0 position is still slightly off.   

So I'm still a little stuck.  The information I'm seeking is the following:

1.  Can Machine Zero be adjusted? (other than by changing ZMR in 2401 values)
2.  How does one establish position for the optical tool setter?  
3.  Is there any other way to adjust the Tool Zero position?  

OK, ONE other thing.  It's related to the issue, but my control does not show "offset values" it only shows the absolute position, and I'm not sure why this is.  

For example:  
If I do an MDI entry of T1 D1 G54 G00 Z0 X0 (LF) it does exactly what you'd expect it puts tool one at 0,0.  And when the tool is in motion, the "distance to go" works as you'd expect.  BUT the offset position is always just 0,0.  I would expect that in this would show the actual position of the tool tip, relative to the work offset position and tool offset.  

Any thoughts?  

Hi,

Without looking at the actual machine data numbers you can change the reference positions as required to cope with machine collissions etc. You will need to power cycle and re reference to check if your new values are correct.

Position display (machine/component) is set in setting data, same place as the rs232 port settings. 5000 and 5001 I believe. Not in the commissioning machine set up data.

Pee

Pee Ell Sea

Hi,

Without looking at the actual machine data numbers you can change the reference positions as required to cope with machine collissions etc. You will need to power cycle and re reference to check if your new values are correct.

Position display (machine/component) is set in setting data, same place as the rs232 port settings. 5000 and 5001 I believe. Not in the commissioning machine set up data.

Pee

 Thank you Pee.  I"m still trying to figure out the machine reference positions.  

But I think I understand what you're saying about position display.  From the manual Nulzhang supplied, it says:

Under Memory Block 5007:

Bit 3 When this bit is set, tool offset parameters P8 and P9 are active.

I will try this on the machine and see if it changes the behavior!  Thank you!

Very interesting!  First of all:  THANK YOU!  I realize that it's not your job to help, I would not be able to make parts without helpful people like you who have expert technical knowledge!  I have read the entire manual, but it's not very easy to understand for people with non-technical backgrounds (like me).

however, your last note made me realize something:  When I loaded the %TEA1 file in, not all of the numbers loaded.. is this what you meant that it the TEA is NOT the PLC data?  When I compare what is in the machine (attached) to what is supposed to be in the parameters (on the printout) it seems that the N5000 values did not load automatically... I guess I need to manually do this?  On the paper a previous owner wrote "machine data bits" for this section.  Maybe this is why my machine has idiosyncrasies!  

I will try loading the original values by hand and see if that changes its behavior.  

Again... Thank you for having patience with people like me!  

Hmmm.  I'm a little bit lost here.  What's shown on the paper printout in my picture is the original  %TEA1 file.  It came with the machine documentation.   When the machine lost it's parameters due to a dead battery, I reloaded the %TEA1 %TEA2 and the %PCP files.  Today I double-checked theses settings.  It appears that the settings below 5000 were transferred over when I reloaded the parameters as written on the file EXCEPT that the parameters above 50000 were mostly just 00000000.   So I changed all the values to what it specified in the %TEA1 file.  Changing these values did not seem to make any difference in the operation of the machine however.  But now the bits on the control seem to match the values that they originally had on paper.  I restarted the control, and the new settings remain there. 

But I think you are saying that I need to find "MD--NCMD NC machine data"  Where do I go to look for this?  I'm struggling with the acronyms.  MD=Machine Data?  NC=Numerical Control?  So this translates to "Machine Data-Numerical Control Machine data Machine data"????  What does this mean, and where do I look for it if not in the Setting Bits?

To answer your other question, I used a program called PCIN42 on a windows 7 computer to transfer the TEA files over an RS232 connection to the Sinumerik control.  However, now I actually use a USB to RS232 connector with a program called CNC data transfer to get programs onto the control.  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cz.mivazlin.cncdatatransfer&hl=en_US CNC Data Transfer is amazing... I simply drop my gcode into an FTP folder, and load it from my phone onto the lathe.  It's really easy.  PCIN can do the same thing, but there's more steps and the interface is not great.  

I spent the weekend fooling around with the control, and I think I understand it better now.  I still have some inaccuracy with the machine, but I think it is more due to the mechanical attributes (backlash, etc) than the control itself.

To explore some of my own questions:
1.  tool offsets.  I still think these should be showing up under overstore and jog, but I might know the reason they're not.  tool offsets may require a movable offset (G54-G58) to calculate lengths?  I'm not sure here, but since you can't add an offset value in overstore, there's nothing to calculate against.  This is unresolved, but I guess I can live with it.  Adjusting bit 3 in block 5007 does show the right position of the tool in MDI mode, but I'm really interested in how to show it in Jog, which would make life way simpler.  

2.  As to the MD data, I've hand-input a lot of values in the 5000 memory range.  I know that I was putting them in the right place and they changed values because they adjust the RS232 baud rate.  Changing the values DOES adjust the XMR and ZMR values, but despite changing dozens of other values, the lathe seems to operate exactly the same.  The reason is unresolved.  Now I know how to adjust these values so that it can match the physical dimensions of my machine.  The machine has not changed size in the last 30 years, so I'm still perplexed as to why the Machine Zero would move any appreciable amount!  

So I'm still stuck on a couple minor issues, but getting closer.  Thanks for your assistance!