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winder configuration with sinamics s120

Created by: SKG at: 8/25/2011 11:08 AM (11 Replies)

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8/25/2011 11:08 AM	Rate (0)
SKG Bronze Member Joined: 5/30/2008 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 135 Rating: (3)	Dear Sir, Please help me in configuring a rewinder with sinamics s120 power module and cu310dp. 1. Motor encoder (encoder1) has been interfaced in CU310dp and another encoder (encoder2) fitted in an idle roller for detecting line speed has been interfaced with smc30. 2. Now in DCC, technology function for diameter calculation requires line speed. 3. If I would get the rpm of the idle roller from encoder2, I could find out the line speed. But in which parameter can I get the rpm from encoder2? Best regards, Shyamal

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8/26/2011 5:08 AM	Rate (0)
SKG Bronze Member Joined: 5/30/2008 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 135 Rating: (3)	Dear experts, Possibly I have got it. It is r61.1. If I can not achieve it, I will again come to you for your valuable supports. Best regards, Shyamal

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8/31/2011 5:35 PM	Rate (0)
Technology Team Platinum Expert Joined: 10/11/2006 Last visit: 9/8/2025 Posts: 6039 Rating: (828)	Hello Shyamal, if you need a complete winder application, have a look here: http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/39699617 your local siemens sales can order this application free of charge for you.
	With best regards, Technology Team Application consulting and pre sales support for SINAMICS, SIMATIC Technology, SIMOTION, SIMOTICS and MOTION CONNECT
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9/6/2011 7:11 PM	Rate (0)
SKG Bronze Member Joined: 5/30/2008 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 135 Rating: (3)	Dear Sir, Thank you very much for your advice. I have already collected DCC winder application v3.0.0 along with sinamics dcc v2.1 for starter v4.2 (6au1810-1ha21-0xa0). 1. Now I want to configure two pm340 with cu310dp - one for winder and other for unwinder with indirect tension control mode. 2. If I link p21515 (actualweb velocity) to an web encoder for calculating diameter (Function diagram WI1100),where will I link reference line speed? 3. The reference line speed is supposed to be converted actually into motor rpm (of both unwinder and rewinder) from gear ratio and diameter. But at the starting time whentension is just on and diameter is yet to be started to calculate, how will motor rpm be calculated from line speed? 4. Whatare the functions of maneuvering parameters p21619 and p21620 (Function diagram WI1110.1)? I will very grateful if you kindly explain me the above points. Best regards, Shyamal

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9/9/2011 4:42 AM	Rate (0)
SKG Bronze Member Joined: 5/30/2008 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 135 Rating: (3)	Dear experts, In this regard, I tried to get help from siemens application center through email. They confirmed that this application needs a separate speed master. Winder / Unwinder configured with this application will take reference speed from that master or from the web encoder for diameter calculation and subsequently winder speed reference. However, as in my case it is a roll to roll winding which means that one roll is for winding and other for unwinding, is it possible to configure winder as speed master (updating cyclically its speed reference from the calculated diameter) and unwinder as tension controller (as if, it is an externally mechanical brake-controlled roll). Any idea, experience in this type of configuration, suggestions will help me much. thank you, Best regards, Shyamal

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9/9/2011 3:27 PM	Rate (0)
DenisMor Posts: 344 Rating: (50)	It is possible to operate a winder as a speed master and unwinder in tension mode. You still need to know the diameter of the roll. You either calculate a diameter from line speed or measure it directly with a diameter sensor.
DenisMor Posts: 344 Rating: (50)
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9/9/2011 6:57 PM	Rate (0)
SKG Bronze Member Joined: 5/30/2008 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 135 Rating: (3)	Dear Sir, Thank you very much for the reply. Yes, I willuse diameter calculator for rewinder also. I am working in configuring the system. Then I will come again soon with my configurations. Best regards, Shyamal

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9/13/2011 6:02 AM	Rate (0)
SKG Bronze Member Joined: 5/30/2008 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 135 Rating: (3)	Dear DenisMor and all, While configuring the rewinder as speed master with updating (as diameter grows up) its motor speed reference using only the diameter calculator of DCC for winder ver3.0.0, I have come across a problem. To get rid of this problem, I need your valuable suggestions / helps. Please refer to Function diagram WI1010 and WI1030 of Sinamics DCC for winder Version 3.0.0. In the function diagram WI1030, there is one AND gate of 5 (five) inputs -1. STW winder tension operation, 2. Enable tension operation from synchronization, 3. SW sequence control operation enabled, 4. inverted SW winder web break and 5. inverted rewinding splice break. Diameter calculation will not be enabled unless the output of this AND gate is true. Input no. 3, control operation enable, bit2 of internal status word of drive, will be high when the drive will follow N_set (Sinamics S Function diagram 2503). Again web break bit of status word of winder (bit9, function diagram WI1020 of DCC) will be high when the drive runs at torque limit (that means, in this case, drive does not follow the set speed N-set. Then, how will these two signals be such simultaneously that the above AND gate output can be high. Best regards, Shyamal

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9/13/2011 6:50 AM	Rate (0)
Technology Team Platinum Expert Joined: 10/11/2006 Last visit: 9/8/2025 Posts: 6039 Rating: (828)	Hello Shyamal, Input no. 3 "control operation enable" is true, even if the speed controller is limited by the torque limits, it is independend form any speed deviation, so the AND output gets high without problems from this side.
	With best regards, Technology Team Application consulting and pre sales support for SINAMICS, SIMATIC Technology, SIMOTION, SIMOTICS and MOTION CONNECT
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9/13/2011 7:49 AM	Rate (0)
SKG Bronze Member Joined: 5/30/2008 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 135 Rating: (3)	Dear TechTeam, Thank you very miuch for the information. It will be highly be appreciable if you kindly give me some more informations: 1. Is there any input in this AND gate which is true only when the drive will operate in torque limit? 2. I think 4th input, "inverted web break", is probably this kind of input. 3. I am confused with the first input, "tension operation" (bit2 of internal status word of winder), about how it becomes true. If being the output of this AND gate true requires that the drive must be operated in torque limit, the diameter calculator in this application can not be enabled if the the drive is configured in speed controlled mode. Is there any way? Best regards, Shyamal

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9/13/2011 3:26 PM	Rate (0)
Technology Team Platinum Expert Joined: 10/11/2006 Last visit: 9/8/2025 Posts: 6039 Rating: (828)	Hello Shyamal, you need to open the DCC chart, go to page A5 and on the right hand side you find a block called "DiaComp_run" (Diameter computer release). If you select the second input and delete there the connection to "tension_oper1" (only select this pin, not the connection, otherwise you delete al connections from "tension_oper1" output), you diameter computer does not longer require "tension operation".
	With best regards, Technology Team Application consulting and pre sales support for SINAMICS, SIMATIC Technology, SIMOTION, SIMOTICS and MOTION CONNECT
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9/14/2011 10:28 AM	Rate (0)
SKG Bronze Member Joined: 5/30/2008 Last visit: 10/22/2024 Posts: 135 Rating: (3)	Hello TechTeam, Thank you so much for giving me the idea. I am going ahead in that direction. Best regards, Shyamal

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