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Tag logging, compressed archives and tags configuring

Created by: krolig at: 12/22/2015 6:34 PM (6 Replies)

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12/22/2015 6:34 PM	Rate (0)
krolig Posts: 22 Rating: (0)	1) In manual for Compressed archive is written: unknown user The compressed archive is stored in the archive database in the same way as the process value archive. But where exactly and in which files can see them? For instance, Slow and Fast archives are stored in folder ArchiveManager of the project in corresponding subfolders and have an extention as *.mdf, besides they have names including dates of start and end time. Every file is called a segment that can be made archivable to separated folder with ability of being switched off and on (attached). I would like to know about compressed archives files in similarity... 2) In manual for Compressed archive is written: unknown user The archive tags are retained and can be copied, moved or deleted. And more else: unknown user What happens to the existing archived process values after compression depends on which method of compression is used: Calculate: the process values of the archive tags of the specified period are read out and compressed. The process values of the archive tags are retained. Calculate and copy: the process values of the archive tags of the specified period are read out, compressed and copied to the compressed archive. - so, it is not understood: where are they copying to, if we guess that they are retained in uncompressed archive? 3) In manual for Compressed archive is written: unknown user The following examples illustrate the way that the compressed archive works: Average value: A process value is archived once every minute and returns 60 values in one hour. The compression with the average value is performed over a period of one hour. Every hour, the average value is formed from the 60 values and is stored in the compressed tag. What happens to the 60 values depends on the compression method described above. Weighted average value: A process value is acquired every second and returns 60 values in one minute. The value is "50" for 40 seconds, the value is "60" for 20 seconds. The compression with the weighted average value is performed over a period of one minute. Every minute, the weighted average value of 60 values is archived, therefore, 40x50 + 20x60 / 60 = 53.33. - so, what is the difference between these two ways in case of equal conditions in acquisition time: at uncompressed archive time intervals are 1 second, in compressed archive time intervals are 1 minute - so what is the difference between these two ways of compressing than?
krolig Posts: 22 Rating: (0)	Last edited by: krolig at: 12/22/2015 6:36:29 PM
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12/23/2015 12:28 PM	Rate (0)
bg2492 Diamond Member Joined: 5/16/2014 Last visit: 9/12/2022 Posts: 7298 Rating: (2172)	Hello krolig, there are two different meanings of compressed archives and compressed archivedata in connection with the Taglogging. 1. There are "normal" Processvaluearchives and Compressed Archives. In the Compressed Archives are values stored, which have been calculated from the "normal" Processvaluearchives, i.e. one value per hour as mean value of the archived values from "normal" Processvalue, which may be archived once every minute. 2. With the first version V6.0, when the MS SQL-Server was used with WinCC, there was a difference between Taglogging-Slow- and Taglogging-Fast-Archive-Segments In the Taglogging-Slow-Archive-Segments the data were stored directly and in the Taglogging-Fast-Archive-Segments the data were stored in a compressed manner in binary packages. But with the newer versions of WinCC the data in the Taglogging-Slow-Archive-Segments are stored in a compressed manner too. You can only read out the data with a script by using the WinCC OLE DB Provider, which is uncompressing the binary packages. Regards Georg Berghof Attachment Taglogging_data.jpg (1323 Downloads)
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12/23/2015 1:06 PM	Rate (0)
Virago Posts: 79 Rating: (9)	Hi, I am working on that at the moment... I found a very good example project whitch show how to read the tags archive. You have to install the WinCC Connectivity Pack to be able to do that. Since WinCC 7 (not sure), all the values are compressed. It's impossible to see the values directly in the database slow like with WinCC6.2... Here you have other tools, but I didn't succeed with it.. Regards
Virago Posts: 79 Rating: (9)
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12/23/2015 1:10 PM	Rate (0)
krolig Posts: 22 Rating: (0)	"your"#1("my"#1). I have already understand about difference between compressed form of the whole data collection and average values from data groups by datetime, but my question is where are the "compressed archives" (not compressed data, but the certain type of archives as "compressed archives") stored in which files? "your"#2("my"#1). Why do you say than data can be read only by OLE DB... Why can't I use the standard way like TrendControl with it's Export button in addition? But will TrendControl work with "compressed archives" like with "ProcessValueArchives"? So, you told about Fast and Slow, that had already been understood for me, but what about mysterious and so secretable "compressed archives" as they are? Where and how are they stored? "to_your"#3("my"#2). What about "retained and can be copied, moved or deleted" in properties of "compressed archives"? "to_your"#4("my"#3). What about "average" and "weighted average"?
krolig Posts: 22 Rating: (0)
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12/23/2015 1:19 PM	Rate (0)
krolig Posts: 22 Rating: (0)	Virago Hi, I am working on that at the moment... I found a very good example project whitch show how to read the tags archive. You have to install the WinCC Connectivity Pack to be able to do that. Since WinCC 7 (not sure), all the values are compressed. It's impossible to see the values directly in the database slow like with WinCC6.2... Here you have other tools, but I didn't succeed with it.. Regards Thanks, but I don't need to read the tags. I need configure "compressed archives" and manage files backup with being sure to be able to view the data through the TrendControl next year with standart Export to CSV ability. "Data for each second stored in compressed form" and "making up the separated table of average values for each timing group (an hour)" - these are different things. I need information about managing the "compressed archives" as they are.
krolig Posts: 22 Rating: (0)
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12/23/2015 2:37 PM	Rate (2)
bg2492 Diamond Member Joined: 5/16/2014 Last visit: 9/12/2022 Posts: 7298 Rating: (2172)	Hello krolig, my question is where are the "compressed archives" (not compressed data, but the certain type of archives as "compressed archives") stored in which files? --> They are stored in the same archivesegments as the "normal" archives, by default in the SLOW-Archives, but you can change this in the Archiveconfiguration for Taglogging Fast, in "Archive Contents". Why do you say than data can be read only by OLE DB... Why can't I use the standard way like TrendControl with it's Export button in addition? --> Yes, you can export data from the TrendControl, for the timerange, which is displayed there. The TrendControl uses the WinCC OLE DB Provider too, for reading the data from the archives. But will TrendControl work with "compressed archives" like with "ProcessValueArchives"? --> Yes. but what about mysterious and so secretable "compressed archives" as they are? Where and how are they stored? --> See above. What about "retained and can be copied, moved or deleted" in properties of "compressed archives"? --> This is releated to the source data from the "normal" processvaluearchives, what should be done with them: 1. Calculate --> calculate the compressed value and leave the source data alone 2. Calculate and copy --> calculate the compressed value and copy the source data (to the compressed archive) 3. Calculate and delete --> calculate the compressed value and delete the source data 4. Calculate, copy and delete --> calculate the compressed value and copy the source data and then delete them. What about "average" and "weighted average"? --> If you have four values archived: 10, 20, 20, 20. The "average" is 15, the value between lowest and highest. The "weighted average" calculates too, how often you have a value (10+20+20+20 = 70; 70/4 = 17,5) Regards Georg Berghof Attachment Taglog_Archivecontents.jpg (730 Downloads)
	Last edited by: bg2492 at: 12/23/2015 2:43:11 PM Last edited by: bg2492 at: 12/23/2015 2:46:26 PM PS: If this post did really help you, you may use the Rate-button
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12/23/2015 3:13 PM	Rate (0)
krolig Posts: 22 Rating: (0)	Now it is clear! thanks a lot! But: so, calculate = normal archiving from fast (processvaluesarchive - "normal") to slow (compressed archive - "compressed" with avg. i.e.). -understood. calculate and copy - copy from fast to slow, but how "normal" values are put in slow (with which timing base - from normal or from "compressed"; why are "normal" needed in "compresed" archive - it looses the meaning of "compressed")? calc with delete - moving from fast to slow through compressing (avg. i.e.)... -understood.
krolig Posts: 22 Rating: (0)
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