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Virtualization and Sysprep Deployments

Created by: vadrad at: 1/21/2016 11:51 PM (4 Replies)

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1/21/2016 11:51 PM	Rate (0)
vadrad Experienced Member Joined: 10/18/2007 Last visit: 11/1/2024 Posts: 70 Rating: (3)	Hello guys, I am working on building a virtual PCS7 v8,1 SP1 system, up to 40 VM guests. Part of this project is to build one type of each image, ex) OS Client image, and deploy it many times over. To do so, I want to use sysprep, but Siemens officially does not support this, nor the computer name changes that come with it. Hence, I want to poll the crowd, and see how many out there have done this, and if anyone has found a full solution to syspreping PCS7 systems. The biggest problem as I have experienced, and can see, is the SQL server tie-ins. Those can be a pain, as the master computer image names tend to linger around in there. Siemens themselves have restore DVDs, and SIVaaS VMs that are sysprep'd, as far as I can tell. Therefore, it seems like Siemens themselves are doing this, and have been doing this for 10+ years, atleast in regards to DVDs. The real questions is how do they sysprep the images to prevent any issues with SQL, computer names changes, etc... If anyone knows the answer then I would be more than happy to hear it, as this is holding me back right now. Regards, VadRad
	Last edited by: vadrad at: 1/21/2016 11:51:48 PM
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1/22/2016 8:05 AM	Rate (0)
Jaapie Gold Member Joined: 1/17/2006 Last visit: 7/19/2024 Posts: 800 Rating: (63)	Hi Vadrad, If you look at Sivaas also these images are not preinstalled. If you start for the first time an image PCS7 is installed. So PCS7 is never installed before deploying an image, always afterwards. It's because of SQL Server. Also a restore works like this. The install of PCS7 is also done afterwards. So my advice: do not install PCS7 before you use sysprep, you get problems for sure! You can use SIMATIC management console to rollout a large PCS7 install. Good luck, Jaap
	Last edited by: Jaapie at: 1/22/2016 8:07:54 AM
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1/22/2016 8:50 AM	Rate (0)
Jules Stohr - Sto... Bronze Member Joined: 12/22/2014 Last visit: 10/7/2021 Posts: 173 Rating: (25)	Hello Vadrad Jaapie is right. I also have no negative experience if you change the computername before the first opening of WinCC. I have created a master image of OS + PCS7 installed. This image can be copied and renamed. I use this only for testing/development systems. For production systems I would use the proper way to install it.
	Greetings Jules Stohr Stohr Industrial Automation BV Netherlands
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1/22/2016 7:24 PM	Rate (2)
mark1507 Platinum Expert Joined: 6/23/2008 Last visit: 11/7/2024 Posts: 1168 Rating: (283)	Hello VadRad To start with; I don't have solutions to your questions but can report from my expierence regarding cloning PCS7 PCs with Sysprep (even when it was PCS7 V7.1 in that times, the SQL server was already a topic). When you see this FAQ you will read the following: "You should no longer change the computer name after installing WinCC and after the first call of the SQL server. If you do nevertheless change the computer name afterwards, then you must uninstall the SQL server and re-install it." In the mentioned FAQ there is also a decription how to determine whether the computer name has been changed subsequently (see headline *"Determination of a later change of computer name"). So with other words; You can check if 'the first call of the SQL server'* has already happend once. In that time (maybe it is still like this) 'the first call of the SQL server' happend when opening the the WinCC-Explorer the first time. That means: No opening of WinCC-Explorer -> No branding of the SQL-Server with the computer name. So we installed PCS7 (and a lot of other stuff), didn't open the WinCC-Explorer and created the image needed for Sysprep. After creating a clone we opened the WinCC-Explorer and checked the SQL instance with the procedure mentioned above ("Determination of a later change..".). Everything was fine so we made some plants with cloned computer for PCS7. Only much later we recognized that there is an other thing what is not 100% "clean"... When installing PCS7, the setup is creating some Windows User Groups. Some of those groups contain also the computername (in e.g. "SQLServer2005MSSQLUser$<PC_NAME>$WINCC"). So all our clones had the computername of the 'mother computer' included in those groups. We didn't expierience any problems and also the customers never reported about any problems, but we wanted to know if we may rename theese groups or we even have to rename the groups. So we contacted Siemens Customer Support but the only answer was: Siemens: "You must not* change the computer name after installation of PCS7"* Me: "But see FAQ5708281, we didn't open WinCC before cloning and the SQL-Server is fine." Siemens:"This FAQ is only for WinCC but not for PCS7" So until today I don't now what to do with the Windows User Groups in such a case. After that I was never again in a situation where cloning would have been a hughe advantage so I gave up cloning. But I would still be interested in this topic. Maybe I need it in future again. So if you gain any new knowledge, please share here. I don't share the statement from Jaapie : Jaapie ...Also a restore works like this. The install of PCS7 is also done afterwards... I don't know if it is different with virual systems like from SIVaaS but when restoring with the recovery DVD for a SIMATIC PC (wich takes aproxematly 10 minutes) you put the computer name when booting the restored Windows the first time. After that you have to reboot again (maybe twice, depending on the OS) and thats all. No installation is running (wich would also need aprox. 45 minutes) after giving the final computer name or reeboot. I think Siemens has a special mechanism, but unfortunately they don't reveal... Best regards...
	Last edited by: mark1507 at: 1/22/2016 7:28:01 PM Last edited by: mark1507 at: 1/22/2016 9:50:41 PM "Expert" does not necessarily mean Siemens employee. Please cross-check your requirements always with official Siemens documentation. Also "Experts" are pleased about feedback. Please don't send support requests as PM. Questioners who don't follow up their thread will be put to my list of users to be ignored.
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1/22/2016 10:03 PM	Rate (0)
vadrad Experienced Member Joined: 10/18/2007 Last visit: 11/1/2024 Posts: 70 Rating: (3)	Thank you for all the replies so far. Every bit helps. I have yet to get my hands on a SIVaas VM, so I am just assuming they are built for rapid deployment. I just can't imagine someone manually creating these, but maybe I am wrong. In regards to DVDs, its a different story. I know for a fact on the older versions, PCS7 v6.1, and from my understanding in the new versions, there are two sets of DVDs. One was a OS only restore, and the other, an A2 disk, was a OS/PCS7 restore. These DVDs were not custom fabricated per each computer serial number, but rather per type of computer. That means you could have dozens of the exact same restore DVD for OS and PCS7. You would load the DVD, enter computer name, and other details and PCS7 was ready to run. These DVDs were made by Siemens via sysprep, I am pretty certain of that, and maybe with something else added in. In my case I need this ability due to efficiency of scaling/deployment, but most importantly due to validation requirements. I have to validate each time a new install is done unless I can use a previously validated install image. In my case there is substantial time savings if I can rapidly deploy images, rather than custom build each and every time. Regards, VadRad
	Last edited by: vadrad at: 1/28/2016 7:00:26 PM
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