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BCU Synch-On/Override Logic

Created by: Big John at: 11/24/2013 8:06 AM (11 Replies)

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11/24/2013 8:06 AM	Rate (0)
Big John Advanced Member Joined: 11/7/2012 Last visit: 8/28/2023 Posts: 67 Rating: (0)	Hi All, I am trying to impelement a CFC chart with following logic on a BCU with synch-check function: 1 - Synch On: - CB close command will executed only when the synch conditions (Voltage,Frequency&Phase angel) meets. - CB close command should NOT be executed when one side or both side of CB is dead. (U1:Dead or U2:Dead Or U1&U2 Dead) 2- Synch Override: -CB close command will executed only when one side or both side of CB is Dead.(U1:Dead or U2:Dead Or U1&U2 Dead) -CB close command should NOT be executed when both side of CB is live. The problem is there is a lot of points which can allocated to CFC and I don't know which one meets my requirements! I tried some of them but still there is some problems...

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11/25/2013 8:42 AM	Rate (0)
Mike J Platinum Expert Joined: 10/9/2007 Last visit: 10/8/2024 Posts: 1250 Rating: (115)	Hi John are you talking about Siprotec? Mike
	Energy Automation products: Sicam, Siprotec, Digsi
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11/25/2013 9:10 AM	Rate (0)
Big John Advanced Member Joined: 11/7/2012 Last visit: 8/28/2023 Posts: 67 Rating: (0)	Hi Mike, Yes I am talking about 6MD66...

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11/25/2013 10:36 AM	Rate (0)
Mike J Platinum Expert Joined: 10/9/2007 Last visit: 10/8/2024 Posts: 1250 Rating: (115)	Hi John I don't know if they changed anything in the newer drivers/firmwares, so please test this in labor. The following infomation are based on old firmwares 1 - Synch On: - CB close command will executed only when the synch conditions (Voltage,Frequency&Phase angel) meets. Set >25-1 eff. or any other function group. There should not be more than one group active and groups 6 to 8 are for Voltage in Delta in one of the sides. - CB close command should NOT be executed when one side or both side of CB is dead. (U1:Dead or U2:Dead Or U1&U2 Dead) You set this in the confguration dialog for synchronization, under General. The inputs you have in the matrix are to allow these conditions, so just don't set them and in the configuration dialog set NO for all 3 conditions 2- Synch Override: -CB close command will executed only when one side or both side of CB is Dead.(U1:Dead or U2:Dead Or U1&U2 Dead) In Matrix set >25-1 1>2<, >25-1 1<2> and >25-1 1<2< . This will allow the breaker to be closed in these conditions -CB close command should NOT be executed when both side of CB is live. Simply block the synchronization using >Block 25-1. Don't "disable" synchronization using >25-1 eff. Depending on what you want to do, you could you one synch group to close the breaker under voltage (one or both sides) and another group to override the synch. Check what is easier to do with CFC. And one more tip: if you want to totally override synchronization use >25-1 dirCO Mike
	Energy Automation products: Sicam, Siprotec, Digsi
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11/27/2013 10:07 AM	Rate (0)
Big John Advanced Member Joined: 11/7/2012 Last visit: 8/28/2023 Posts: 67 Rating: (0)	Dear Mike, I improve my CFC & Configuration as per your advices; Synch On works perfectly. But, the problem is Synch Override! When I use>Block 25-1& while>25-1 eff is enabled,Nocommandexecuts. I think>Block 25-1 compeletly block the commands for CB closing. Using>25-1 dirCO is not safe, I assume! For more clarification on what I've done in CFC, please find the attachment. And just be advisethe BCU firmware is 4.82. Thank you John Attachment synch.pdf (183 Downloads)

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11/27/2013 11:07 AM	Rate (0)
Mike J Platinum Expert Joined: 10/9/2007 Last visit: 10/8/2024 Posts: 1250 Rating: (115)	Hi John sorry, I made a mistake. Don't use the block, as it... blocks. If both sides are energized and the values are in the synch limits, why not close it? It doesn't make sense (normally) and I think there is not ready function in Sirprotec for this. Some Siprotecs are able to measure the reference voltage without command request, but Iam not sure about your device. Can you check if you can read voltage in the input event without command? Mike
	Energy Automation products: Sicam, Siprotec, Digsi
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11/27/2013 12:50 PM	Rate (0)
Big John Advanced Member Joined: 11/7/2012 Last visit: 8/28/2023 Posts: 67 Rating: (0)	Hi again Mike, If both sides are energized and the values are in the synch limits, why not close it? It doesn't make sense (normally) and I think there is not ready function in Sirprotec for this. - It doesn't make sense to me either! It is asked me to do so. Some Siprotecs are able to measure the reference voltage without command request, but Iam not sure about your device. Can you check if you can read voltage in the input event without command? - No, Mine only shows measurement with command request. Did you see the file I attached in my last post? John

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11/27/2013 2:03 PM	Rate (0)
Mike J Platinum Expert Joined: 10/9/2007 Last visit: 10/8/2024 Posts: 1250 Rating: (115)	Hi John your CFC seems ok. Well, ifyou don'thave the voltage measurement, then you need need some more CFC for this. Maybe it is betterto use a second synch group for this override, so that you don'tget lost in some manyCFC and don't need to interact between2 philosophies. Considering a second grou: when you want to override, activate the second groupand deactivate the first group using >25-x Eff. By activating the second group, also set >25-2rlblk, so that synchronization still works, but no commands are issued. If you want to close the breakerifone sideor both aredead, set >25-1 1>2<, >25-1 1<2> and >25-1 1<2<. The signals 25 V1> V2<, 25 V1< V2> and 25 V1< V2< will be set only if one or both sides are dead. If can put all these 3 signals on an OR gate and release the >25-2rlblk using a flipflop. Now is simple: when you receive a command, synchronization starts. If the system has voltage on both sides, being synchronized or not, you don't care. If one of the sides of both are dead, your OR gate will be set, releasing the >25-2rlblk. Please do tests to check it and let me know if it works. Mike
	Energy Automation products: Sicam, Siprotec, Digsi
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12/2/2013 7:44 AM	Rate (0)
Big John Advanced Member Joined: 11/7/2012 Last visit: 8/28/2023 Posts: 67 Rating: (0)	Hi Mike, Synch On is OK as it was. Synch Override is still not working. I think it's blocked somehow! As you said I use 2 synch group (Print screen of both group is attached). The new CFC chart is also attached, please have a look. I am working on it. If you come up with someting let me know.. Just be aware "Dead Line & Dead Bus" is removed from our condition for issue commands. Thanks Attachment Synch2.pdf (172 Downloads)

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12/2/2013 10:14 AM	Rate (0)
Mike J Platinum Expert Joined: 10/9/2007 Last visit: 10/8/2024 Posts: 1250 Rating: (115)	Hi John 1. Synch groups 6, 7 and 8 are for delta VT connections. Do you really have a delta connection? 2. The CFC is wrong. The output from CMD_Inf is only a pulse, youwill never have an output from the override key together with the breaker command. The key which controls the "sync override" should be a internal single point. With this you link it directly to other blocks. You don't need the close command in the logic. Just watch the variables I mentioned before. Mike
	Energy Automation products: Sicam, Siprotec, Digsi
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