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Commissioning of Loss in weight system

Created by: aameet at: 8/19/2020 4:28 PM (8 Replies)

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8/19/2020 4:28 PM

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aameet

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Hi,

We are going to do commissioning of Loss in weight system I have read the manual and have summarized the sequence as below. I have few queries in it.

Request expert members to advise whether the sequence is correct and help with queries.

1. To do basic setting in DR3 & DR6. To do Zero weight adjustment in empty hopper and Weight adjustment 1 with calibration weights in the hopper.

2. To set Loss in weight in DR6 , time unit and filling weight in DR 6.

3. To set Interface parameters in DR7. Source for analogue output shall be ' PID Control output.'

4. We will leave Automatic parameters (DR 19 ) to factory set values. Only first two output values @ 20% and 60% will be used. Here do we need to execute command 164?

5. We will execute ' Device Characteristic curve ( command 165 ). Hopper will be filled completely before execution of this command and based on the Analogue output of the FTC , screw feeder will discharge the material. Material will get discharged and relevant characteristics will be noted by FTC.

6. Then we will execute ' Determination of PID characteristics ' command ( Command 164 ) . Here we shall execute command ' Autoparameter start 164' ,is this correct ?Hopper will be filled completely before execution of the command and during this command, material will be discharged thru screw feeder based on the Analog o/p of FTC.

Is this sufficient to complete the commissioning or is it necessary to learn ‘ Material characteristic curve ‘ DR 13 as well ? If this Material characteristic curve has to be executed then we should only set ‘ Dosing (Auto/grav)’ ( command 158) to ON and Factor 90% , Factor 70% , Factor 50% , Factor 30% and Factor 10% will be automatically executed during command 158? Is it correct ?

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Split from Loss in Weight System.

Last edited by: Jen_Moderator at: 08/20/2020 09:37:33

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8/26/2020 3:22 PM	Rate (0)
Siwarexi Gold Expert Joined: 1/4/2007 Last visit: 12/2/2024 Posts: 1152 Rating: (175)	Hello aameet, Additional to your point 3.: Set „Process value for 20mA“ to 100. To your point 4.: No. Don’t execute command 164! To your point 6.: Yes, execute command 164. It’s not necessary to learn ‘Material characteristic curve‘ DR 13. If you want to use the Material characteristic curve, you have to fill your bin. Start a dosing, and execute the command 180, when your bin is filled with 90% of material. Execute the command 179, when your bin is filled with 70% of material. Execute the command 178, when your bin is filled with 50% of material. Execute the command 177, when your bin is filled with 30% of material. Execute the command 176, when your bin is filled with 10% of material. See also the attached file, please. Best regards Siwarexi Attachment SIWAREX_FTC_L_Quick Guide_Siwatool_V4_3.4.pdf (231 Downloads)

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9/8/2020 12:54 PM	Rate (0)
AutoGen_926061 Member Joined: 4/28/2015 Last visit: 10/12/2023 Posts: 1 Rating: (0)	Hello Siwarexi, Thank you for your reply. I am just reconfirming below point from my earlier post: 5. We will execute ' Device Characteristic curve ( command 165 ). Hopper will be filled completely before execution of this command and based on the Analogue output of the FTC , screw feeder will discharge the material. Material will get discharged and relevant characteristics will be noted by FTC. We have to perform this command 165. Is it correct? During execution of command 164 and 165, mA output of the FTC will change automatically to 7.2 mA and then to 13.6 mA. Material discharge would increase as per increment in this mA output. Hope this understanding is correct. Do we have to give any DI to FTC-L module when filling is ON so that FTC-L automatically changes the mode from gravimetric to Volumetric. ? During commissioning steps also ,under DR 7 we will keep 'Source for analogue output' parameter to 'PID - control output '. Hope this is ok while performing command 164 & 165. When we give volumetric Dosing ( Command 157) then does it start dosing as per the set point set in Kg/hr ? This is my first time on this system and thus such queries.

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9/9/2020 9:27 AM	Rate (0)
aameet Posts: 11 Rating: (1)	Hello Siwarexi, I only have posted the above queries yesterday but was not logged in portal. Further to above queries , We also wish to know whether we should set the flow rate in Kg/Hr in DR 20 before performing command 164 & 165 or we can perform command 164 & 165 irrespective of flow rate set in DR 20.
aameet Posts: 11 Rating: (1)
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9/10/2020 12:10 PM	Rate (0)
Siwarexi Gold Expert Joined: 1/4/2007 Last visit: 12/2/2024 Posts: 1152 Rating: (175)	Hello AutoGen, To your question: 5. We will execute ' Device Characteristic curve ( command 165 ). Hopper will be filled completely before execution of this command and based on the Analogue output of the FTC , screw feeder will discharge the material. Material will get discharged and relevant characteristics will be noted by FTC. We have to perform this command 165. Is it correct? My answer: YES! Your question: During execution of command 164 and 165, mA output of the FTC will change automatically to 7.2 mA and then to 13.6 mA. Material discharge would increase as per increment in this mA output. Hope this understanding is correct. My answer: YES! The mA output of the FTC depends on the settings in DR19. Your question: Do we have to give any DI to FTC-L module when filling is ON so that FTC-L automatically changes the mode from gravimetric to Volumetric. ? My answer: Well, normally the FTC starts the filling, when the bin is empty. There is a parameter in DR6 „Start refilling“. Here you can set a percentage-value of the fill level, where the FTC shall start the filling. If you want to start the filling by yourself, you can execute the command 149 (= Refilling). If your filling takes only a few seconds, you can do the filling without sending a command to the FTC. If so, the FTC is freezing the current output for a few seconds. Your question: During commissioning steps also ,under DR 7 we will keep 'Source for analogue output' parameter to 'PID - control output '. Hope this is ok while performing command 164 & 165. My answer: Yes, this setting is correct. Your question: When we give volumetric Dosing ( Command 157) then does it start dosing as per the set point set in Kg/hr ? My answer: Regarding the time „hr“ or „sec“: You have to define the time by yourself in DR6 „Time unit“. This „Time unit“ is also the time for your set point. Your question: We also wish to know whether we should set the flow rate in Kg/Hr in DR 20 before performing command 164 & 165 or we can perform command 164 & 165 irrespective of flow rate set in DR 20. My answer: You can perform command 164 & 165 irrespective of flow rate set in DR 20. Best regards Siwarexi

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9/10/2020 4:04 PM	Rate (0)
aameet Posts: 11 Rating: (1)	Hello Siwarexi, Thank you once again for your detailed and clear replies. After doing weight adjustment, we performed Device characteristic curve ( command 165 ) and PID parameter command 164. It was was observed during command 165 that, flow rate was sometimes going on the negative side and sometimes on the positive side. Time unit selected is Seconds and flow rate during this 165 command was fluctuating between -0.6 Kg/s to +0.7 kg/s. The total discharged quantity was around 28 kg during this command 165. Weight difference seen in FTC was also near around 27-28 kg. What could be the reason of flow rate going on the negative side. Is it normal or we need to check something? What is the method to verify the accuracy of this system ? Is it only the drop test or any other method we can have ? In this application, Hopper has been installed on 4 load cells. Below the hopper, a small rectangular compartment is there which is connected to the screw feeder. These is no gate/valve between hopper and screw feeder. Is this ok or is it going to cause any problem ?
aameet Posts: 11 Rating: (1)
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9/10/2020 4:37 PM	Rate (0)
Siwarexi Gold Expert Joined: 1/4/2007 Last visit: 12/2/2024 Posts: 1152 Rating: (175)	Hello aameet, Start the FTC in vol. mode (= command 157). Here you have a constant output of the FTC. Observe now the flow rate. If the flow rate is fluctuating, the fautly device is not the FTC, but the mechanics of the scale. The method to verify the accuracy of this system is a drop test. When the small rectangular compartment is complety connected on the scale, there is no problem. This small rectangular compartment must NOT have any contact to the ground or somewhere else. Best regards Siwarexi

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9/16/2020 9:36 AM	Rate (0)
aameet Posts: 11 Rating: (1)	Hello Siwarexi, Thank you for your reply. We checked flowrate 1 earlier and I understood later on that Flow rate 2 shall be observed as flow rate 1 is for internal purpose. We tried to Gravimetric dosing for testing purpose but FTC went into volumetric mode automatically , flow rate shown by FTC was too high. So might be due to flow rate fault FTC had switched to Volumetric mode. During the above mentioned material discharge, FTC was showing flow value in Kg/H for few seconds and it automatically started showing flow display as F ______ Kg/H ; it stopped showing flow. What could be the reason that it stopped showing flow rate ? Setpoint was around 588 Kg/H and flow rate shown initially was around 3000 Kg/H. In our application, four legged hopper has been installed on four load cells. Rectangular box under the hopper and screw feeder connected to rectangular box are mechanically isolated from the hopper. This rectangular box & screw feeder are not part of weighing assembly. Only hopper is being weighed by load cells. A flexible cloth has been used between hopper bottom and rectangular box. I guess this must be causing the problem. Earlier we have checked the static weight output of the FTC by placing standard calibration weights on hopper and FTC was measuring this static weights correctly. Will FTC measure the flow rate in Volumetric mode as well ? What path would you suggest ahead ?
aameet Posts: 11 Rating: (1)	Last edited by: aameet at: 09/16/2020 10:07:02
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9/23/2020 4:15 PM	Rate (0)
Siwarexi Gold Expert Joined: 1/4/2007 Last visit: 12/2/2024 Posts: 1152 Rating: (175)	Hello aameet, The FTC jumps back from grav. mode to vol. mode, when there is too much vibrations on the scale. I don’t know, why the FTC shows F ______ Kg/H, and the FTC stopped showing flow. Maybe there is something in the Step7-program, but I don’t know. Yes, the FTC measure also the flow rate in Volumetric mode as well. Best regards Siwarexi

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Created by: aameet at: 8/19/2020 4:28 PM (8 Replies)

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Last edited by: Jen_Moderator at: 08/20/2020 09:37:33

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