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Converting PID control blocks

Created by: DolaMam at: 6/22/2009 7:00 AM (5 Replies)

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6/22/2009 7:00 AM	Rate (0)
DolaMam Experienced Member Joined: 6/22/2009 Last visit: 5/8/2023 Posts: 62 Rating: (3)	Good morning. I'm trying to convert an S5 program (to S7) which has the following standard function blocks: FB20 (ANL-MINI), FB23 (ORG-MINI), FB38 (RETTEN), FB39 (LADEN), FB72 (GPH:SIM1), FB96 (SOSTELL). Could somebody tell me what are the replacements for these blocks. I could get the descriptions of these block in S5 PID & Fuzzy control documentation. But could not find any reference on S5 to S7 conversion. Please help.

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6/22/2009 10:23 AM	Rate (0)
dchartier Grandmaster Joined: 9/27/2006 Last visit: 5/28/2023 Posts: 12024 Rating: (2594)	Hello bits_n_bytes; So you already know that these blockss were for a S5 add-on package called "Modular PID and Fuzzy Control". This may be redundant, be the manual for that package can be found here: S5 Modular PID and Fuzzy Controls manual: http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/9137241 There is no direct conversion for the blocks in the add-on package. You must purchase licenses for equivalent S7 engineering packages, and prepare a manual implementation; first start by removing all these blocks from your S5 program before conversion, and look at the following links: S7 Modular PID description and manual: https://mall.automation.siemens.com/WW/guest/index.asp?nodeID=5000488&lang=en http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/1137082 S7 Fuzzy Control description and manual: https://mall.automation.siemens.com/WW/guest/index.asp?nodeID=5000622&lang=en http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/1135654 Here also is a useful FAQ that discusses the differences between certain S5 PID parameters and their equivalents inS7 CPUs, and shows how to pass from one to the other: Converting S5 control to S7 format: http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/17991108 Hope this helps, Daniel Chartier

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6/22/2009 11:35 AM	Rate (0)
fritz Diamond Expert Joined: 10/7/2005 Last visit: 5/29/2023 Posts: 2965 Rating: (1025)	As usual very nice work from Daniel, I only have one more thing to add for bits_n_bytes: FB72 (GPH:SIM1) is part of S5 Graph (think Sequential Function Chart programming). The manuals/linksto the various versions of S5 Graph are: GRAPH5 V3.0 Standard Function Blocks GRAPH 5/II Version 7.1 GRAPH 5/II Graphically Programming Sequence Controllers under S5-DOS Operating System I hope this helps and good luck with your conversion (looks like an "interesting" piece of S5 code you have there) Cheers Fritz
	Cheers fritz The advice and opinion given in this thread is that of the author and does not necessarily reflect the views of I S Systems Pty Limited. To find out how I S Systems can help you with your automation needs please visit www.issystems.com.au.
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6/22/2009 12:52 PM	Rate (0)
DolaMam Experienced Member Joined: 6/22/2009 Last visit: 5/8/2023 Posts: 62 Rating: (3)	Dear dchartier and fritz, Thanx for your replies. I will try out the suggestions and revert back.

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7/10/2009 9:14 AM	Rate (0)
DolaMam Experienced Member Joined: 6/22/2009 Last visit: 5/8/2023 Posts: 62 Rating: (3)	Hi, Now I have got all the files from the client and have actually started working on the software conversion. Then Igot stuck up at the GRAPH5 part. There are standard SBs (details given below) in the program and I can not find out their use. SB 0 - P71200-S 9000-D-2 SB2 - P71200-S 9002-D-2 SB3 - P71200-S 9003-D-2 SB5 - P71200-S 9005-D-1 The guess I have to write the other sequences (SBs) in S7-GRAPH manually. Thanks.

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7/10/2009 4:14 PM	Rate (0)
dchartier Grandmaster Joined: 9/27/2006 Last visit: 5/28/2023 Posts: 12024 Rating: (2594)	Hello bits_n_bytes; If you open the Standard function bblocks manual that was proposed to you earlier, you will sse this following description of SBx blocks in Graph 5: GRAPH 5 Overview The Programming Procedure (1) Programming the Cascade (SBx) To start with, decide on the cascade's basic structure. You use the 'overview representation' for this; it helps you to describe the cascade's overall structure, i.e. the way the individual branches and junctions are arranged. The cascade is terminated by a jump to a previous step. The jump may be to step 0 or to another step within the cascade. Note that, after the execution of step 0, the cascade continues with the intializing steps (INIT steps) and not, as one might assume, with step 1 (ref. GRAPH 5: cascade end). Now follows the second step: define the contents of the cascade's steps and transitions with the aid of the 'detail representation'. This programming level is also referred to as 'zoom-in'. The program of the 'steps' contains the output commands with the required interlocks. Should your cascade call up any secondary cascades, then the steps also include the call of the related secondary cascade and the data supply for the latter (see FB 71 for the standard version). The cascade's 'transitions' (= passage from one step to the next) contain the conditions which need to be met before the cascade can switch to the next step. These conditions are called 'step enabling conditions'. GRAPH 5 guides you when programming your steps and transitions: in the 'overview representation', any step or transition not yet defined is indicated by a question mark.A so-called 'ID screen f o n ' indicates the number of the data block assigned to the cascade. It also preselects the cascade's initial timer (base timer). The cascade then automatically occupies two timers for each of its simultaneous branches. As up to 8 such branches are allowed, the cascade requires a maximum of 16 timers in the programmable controller. Make sure not to use these timers for any other purpose. Once you have programmed the contents of the cascade's steps and transitions and have filled in the ID screen form, the sequence block SB X is terminated and saved. Basically, Graph 5 uses SBx files to program the Grafcet sequence. In S7-Graph, this is done graphically,through the user interface; you organize steps and transitions visually. Hope this helps, Daniel Chartier
	Last edited by: dchartier at: 7/10/2009 5:25 PM
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