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Encoder connection to Simotion D410

Created by: Simotion at: 4/16/2009 3:21 PM (9 Replies)

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4/16/2009 3:21 PM	Rate (0)
Simotion Posts: 223 Rating: (1)	I am using a Simotion D410. I have and encoder for motorfeedback, an encoder for the speed of the carriage that is driven by the Simotion drive and an encoder for the linespeed that is used for synchronisation of the carriage. Is it possible to connect those three encoders for these function to the Simotion. Connect the motor encoder directly to the Simotion and the two other (used for synchronisation) to an SMC30, Thanks.
Simotion Posts: 223 Rating: (1)
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4/16/2009 3:31 PM	Rate (0)
ChristophD Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 5/12/2006 Last visit: 4/24/2025 Posts: 22624 Rating: (3061)	Hello, the SINAMICS Part of D410 can use 3 encoders (each encoder must use 1 SMC Modul). The SIMOTION can only handle 2 encoders via PROFIDRIVE. The SIMOTION itself has no encoder connection directly. Regards Christoph

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4/30/2009 2:11 PM	Rate (0)
Jerry Posts: 116 Rating: (7)	Hi, in addition to Christoph: SIMOTION D410 has one onboard encoder interface (see manual) The limit is the same (2 encoders via PROFIdrive) this means: You have to count - onboard encoder interface (if used) - DRIVE-CLiQ encoders - SMCs and - motor with DRIVE-CLiQ interface. If2 encoders "on SIMOTION side"is not enough, than you can use PROFIBUS encoders via PROFIdrive Telegram 81. (this is a possibility to connect an encoder directly to SIMOTION) see https://mall.automation.siemens.com/DE/guest/index.asp?aktprim=0&lang=en&nodeid=10031430&foldersopen=-2-1-1277-3-4-609-1323-2584-2791-2792-2793-2796-2800- Regards Jerry
Jerry Posts: 116 Rating: (7)
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5/20/2009 4:36 PM	Rate (0)
Simotion Posts: 223 Rating: (1)	Jerry, Do you mean that I cannot use the configuration I posted first, with one motor encoder, an encoder for the carriage and an encoder for the material. Motor encoder connected directly to the D410 and the two others to smc30 (two connected to a hub). For my motor encoder and the position of the carriage (driven by that motor) I realy should need the encoders connected to the drive. But for the speed of the material, a profibus encoder would be an option. I shoud want to configure the encoder for the material speed as external encoder in simotion, how can I do that, and how can I link an measurement input to that external encoder? I saw indeed that in simotion you can only select the first two encoders for position feedback of the axis and for the external encoder. Any suggestions how to solve this? Thanks.
Simotion Posts: 223 Rating: (1)
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6/2/2009 11:11 AM	Rate (0)
Jerry Posts: 116 Rating: (7)	Hi, here my answer: Do you mean that I cannot use the configuration I posted first, with one motor encoder, an encoder for the carriage and an encoder for the material. Motor encoder connected directly to the D410 and the two others to smc30 (two connected to a hub). Answer: it is not possible because via PROFIdrive only 2 encoder values are transferred For my motor encoder and the position of the carriage (driven by that motor) I realy should need the encoders connected to the drive. But for the speed of the material, a profibus encoder would be an option. Answer: take a PROFIBUS encoder which supports Telegram 81 https://mall.automation.siemens.com/DE/guest/index.asp?aktprim=0&lang=en&nodeid=10031430&foldersopen=-2-1-1277-3-4-609-1323-2584-2791-2792-2793-2796-2800- I should want to configure the encoder for the material speed as external encoder in simotion, how can I do that, and how can I link an measurement input to that external encoder? Answer: PROFIBUS encoder --> see attachment If you need a measuring input, you have to use a "global" measuring input. This could be done with the onboard I/O. --> seeFAQ http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/29063656 Keep in mind: Local measuring inputs are axis-related and realized in the SINAMICS drive. The actual position value is measured in this case. Global measuring inputs can be freely assigned to the axes. The measuring result is assigned an internal time stamp for high-precision determination of the axis positions. I saw indeed that in simotion you can only select the first two encoders for position feedback of the axis and for the external encoder. Any suggestions how to solve this?Answer: use a PROFIBUS encoder which supports Telegram 81 Regards Jerry Attachment external_Encoder.pdf (590 Downloads)
Jerry Posts: 116 Rating: (7)
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6/2/2009 11:32 AM	Rate (0)
Simotion Posts: 223 Rating: (1)	Jerry, Thank you for your clear answers. But on the first Profibus of the D410, ET200IO and a MP277 is connected, so clocksynchronous profibus will not be possible. Can an Profibus absolute encoder connected to 1,5M not clocksynchronous Profibus be configured? But in that case the update speed of the position value and the reset of that value can be discussed. Thanks
Simotion Posts: 223 Rating: (1)
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6/2/2009 2:42 PM	Rate (0)
Jerry Posts: 116 Rating: (7)	Hi, here my answer: "But on the first Profibus of the D410, ET200IO and a MP277 is connected, so clocksynchronous profibus will not be possible." --> I do not understand this! It is not necessary that every slave is isochronous! You can configure the PROFIBUS isochronous and then - use the encoder isochronous and - e.g. the I/O as non isochronous standard I/O -use HMInon isochronous What you have to take into account is that every slave and I/O amount will rise up the data volume and so may influence the minimum cycle time. To use the encoder non isochrone won't work. (PROFIdrive members have to be isochronous) Regards Jerry
Jerry Posts: 116 Rating: (7)
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7/29/2010 3:27 PM	Rate (0)
diego montes Posts: 2 Rating: (0)	Dear CristophD an Jerry Yesterday I had the same problem qnd I could find an elegant solution, not as orthodox as the ones you mentioned, but it works! The main problems are: 1- Drive Object in Sinamics accepts only 3 encoders 2- Profibus telegram transmits as much as 2 encoders data 3- Tech Object (TO) AXIS in Simotion accept only encoders 1 and 2 TO accepts encoders 1 and 2, but in fact, TO only knows information received by profibus. So I lied to the TO in Simotion. How? 1- Let's create a Drive, named "Drive_1" in sinamics with 3 encoders attached. Let's name the encoders in Sinamics: 1s, 2s and 3s. Let's create an Axis TO in simotion with the 2 encoders permited and let's name encoders of this TO: 1to and 2to. 2- Go into sinamic integrated configuration, "Configuration" menu, you must first select telegram 116 that correspond to DSC control with 2 encoders. 3- Go into sinamics integrated configuration, "Drives"-"Drive_1"-"Communication"-"Profibus". Here you can check the detailed contens of the telegram for the drive object "Drive_1". Pay attention to G1 and G2 data, in transmit and receive parts. You can see the data is assigned to BICOS indexes [0] and [1] Here is the MAGIC! You must change [0] and [1] into [1] and [2]. At this time you can't because you choosed telegram 116. So go into telegram configuration again and choose "free telegram", then come back to profibus details and now you CAN change the telegram. WATCH OUT!!!! change ONLY data that correspond to G1 and G2, in the transmit and receive parts. If you change something else, nothing will work again... After this change the TO in Simotion will use encoders 2s and 3s instead 1s and 2s. In simotion nothing must be changed because it's still working with a 2 encoders axis. - The Speed Control Loop in Sinamics still uses Encoder 1s to close the loop. - The Position Control in Simotion and even an external encoder, use Encoder 2s and 3s to close the loop. Obviously Simotion "thinks" he is using encoders 1 and 2 of the drives but, in reality, he is using encoders 2s and 3s. He knows nothing about encoder 1s (used in speed control loop in sinamics) ONE MORE THING: In sinamics speed control loop, DSC configuration, you must config that DSC uses encoder 2s or 3s for the DSC functionality. It has nothing to do respect the speed control loop, I mean DCS control. The motor positioning encoder used in Simotion must be the same for the DSC control in Sinamics. You even have a factor to adapt pulses if needed. If I did'nt explain my self correctly, please let me know, I will send my project. Regards Diego Montes
diego montes Posts: 2 Rating: (0)
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7/30/2010 4:54 AM	Rate (0)
ChristophD Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 5/12/2006 Last visit: 4/24/2025 Posts: 22624 Rating: (3061)	Hi paco, but you only use 2 Encoders in Simotion, that's not the problem. But the user 'simotion' will use all 3 Encoders in SIMOTION Regards Christoph

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7/30/2010 5:31 PM	Rate (0)
diego montes Posts: 2 Rating: (0)	ChristophD Hi paco, but you only use 2 Encoders in Simotion, that's not the problem. But the user 'simotion' will use all 3 Encoders in SIMOTION Regards Christoph You are completely right... I use only 2 encoders in Simotion. I use 2 of the 3 available in my Sinamics Drive (via drive cliq) My proposal does not contribute to solve Jerry's problem... Sorry for the confusion! Regards Diego
diego montes Posts: 2 Rating: (0)
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