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Engineering a plant: what tools do you use

Created by: Oreca at: 2/13/2010 11:41 PM (7 Replies)

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2/13/2010 11:41 PM	Rate (0)
Oreca Platinum Expert Joined: 3/14/2008 Last visit: 10/3/2024 Posts: 2105 Rating: (940)	Hello guys, I was just wondering how you guys engineer a plant, for example a power plant. Let say all the hardware is known and all the machines, valves etc. are already assembled and connected to the plc/remote i/o. All you have to do is engineer the plant: what happens during startup/shutdown, when an emergency occurs. when can a unit start etc.. Do you use programs or tools to help you with this? Or does Siemens has additonal tools to help you with. Ofcourse, you have the PID's, but im talking about development programs or tools ofsome sort... I'm very curious about this... Grtz Sandor
	If I could help you, you can use the RATE button. Thank you. Prospact Netherlands...your PCS7 and PCS neo Expert Topic: PCS7 Complete Overview
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2/15/2010 9:13 AM	Rate (0)
CBo Gold Member Joined: 4/5/2006 Last visit: 9/16/2024 Posts: 917 Rating: (63)	Hi Oreca , i'm a lil confused: you said all plant already done, that's the main part of engineering i hope this link can help a lil SIMATIC Engineering tools S7-Technology regards

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2/17/2010 10:44 AM	Rate (0)
Jura Experienced Member Joined: 1/17/2007 Last visit: 10/3/2024 Posts: 69 Rating: (0)	We do programs for power plants (mostly on hydro power plants), but I am not sure, what would you like to know. We use Siemens tools - Process object view in Simatic Manager together with excel. Sometimes also configuration tools of WinCC if there are non PCS7 parts in the project. If you are curious about programing of power plant - with this kind of question I preffer if you seek for some help of somebody who already programe some power plant. There are too much risk for going directly to programming power plant if you don't know how everything works.

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2/17/2010 11:43 AM	Rate (0)
Oreca Platinum Expert Joined: 3/14/2008 Last visit: 10/3/2024 Posts: 2105 Rating: (940)	Hello, After reading my post, I was little confused also What I mean is what tools you use when developing the software for a plant, and for example a power plant. Procedures like emergency stops, start up....do you use some specialized tools of pcs7? In my situation, I have PID's, Process flow diagrams etc. and I need to create the software for this... For startup the plant, I use SFC, but first I need to know what need to be started and the conditions when the next step is initiated. Also I call a drum with a burner a unit. and the unit can start after the process conditions are present. This means that you need compressed air, deminwater etc.. A unit is healthy when it met all the requirements-> Setpoint of burner is OK, O2 percentage is OK etc.. In order to create all this, you need some tools to define all this. And I wonder what your methods are to do this.
	If I could help you, you can use the RATE button. Thank you. Prospact Netherlands...your PCS7 and PCS neo Expert Topic: PCS7 Complete Overview
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2/17/2010 12:12 PM	Rate (0)
Jura Experienced Member Joined: 1/17/2007 Last visit: 10/3/2024 Posts: 69 Rating: (0)	We don't use no tools from PCS7 - power plants are in domain of power distribution from Siemens -they have some macros for power plants, but they want sell it and they are adopeted to theirs type of plants. We do things with normal PCS7. What you need is functional requirements and functional description. You need to know what are minimal requrements for operation and how the plant should work. This you should get from one who constructed the power plant. After that you programe you plant by person who does the programing. Again I think that questions you are asking are a little to rookie for power plant. OK except if this power plant is small and all you need is give it to a start and stop signal. If you need to programe a whole power plant there are enormous area of missing fields. And I think there is no suitable anwser to you question - how can someone help you if you don't know how to set an anwser - really no offense, but programming a power plant (what power plant? - hydro, termal, ...) isn't easy job and there is no tools as we know it.

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2/17/2010 1:16 PM	Rate (0)
Oreca Platinum Expert Joined: 3/14/2008 Last visit: 10/3/2024 Posts: 2105 Rating: (940)	Yeah I do know there are a lot of important data. I'm no rookie, I know what I'm doing, but I just wanted to share things.Was just a question i was curious about. It could be any plant, not in particular a power plant.
	If I could help you, you can use the RATE button. Thank you. Prospact Netherlands...your PCS7 and PCS neo Expert Topic: PCS7 Complete Overview
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2/17/2010 1:50 PM	Rate (0)
Jura Experienced Member Joined: 1/17/2007 Last visit: 10/3/2024 Posts: 69 Rating: (0)	Again, I meant no offense. But this sentances give me some confusion: "In my situation, I have PID's, Process flow diagrams etc. and I need to create the software for this... For startup the plant, I use SFC, but first I need to know what need to be started and the conditions when the next step is initiated." I cannot imagine what tool you expect that PCS7 will offer you? There are so big difference (how compresed air is made, how water is treated ...) between single type (exmpl Pelton type) of hydro power plants from plant to plant. We are using just little standard blocks from PCS7 library (just driver blocks and some monitor blocks). Almost all control block from PCS7 library (Even specially bough Simocode FB) are completly useless and we develop everything (control of sequence, check back before execute comanding, joint control, ...) else on our own for hydro power plants and we develop different things for thermo power plants. And every time they are adopted to the single power plant. Block are created with SCL, where you can really program almost everything. .

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2/18/2010 3:49 PM	Rate (0)
Oreca Platinum Expert Joined: 3/14/2008 Last visit: 10/3/2024 Posts: 2105 Rating: (940)	Thx for sharing... Besides using tools from Siemens, there are also tools of third party's. And developing procedures for example: start up or shutdown can be done in various ways. I use the program "Smart Draw" where hundreds of diagrams (flow, pid, uml, cause and effect etc.) are available. It gives me a good overview to the functionality of a plant when I use several of the diagrams Furthermore, there is the ISA88 standard of defining the equipment/process cells etc... also a tool to specify the working conditions of a plant. Also Siemens has got a few add-ons--> Simatic safety matrix tool for example... You also have Visio to draw SFC's and stuff like that.., Excel to use for the IEA.
	If I could help you, you can use the RATE button. Thank you. Prospact Netherlands...your PCS7 and PCS neo Expert Topic: PCS7 Complete Overview
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