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FAL like instruction for arrays

Created by: romendra at: 8/12/2014 7:28 PM (19 Replies)

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8/12/2014 7:28 PM	Rate (0)
romendra Posts: 43 Rating: (1)	Hi, Is there a FAL like instruction available in Portal 12? In fact is there any array manipulation instructions for LAD? Thanks, Romendra
romendra Posts: 43 Rating: (1)
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8/12/2014 8:20 PM	Rate (0)
Jens_app Gold Member Joined: 1/5/2011 Last visit: 11/29/2024 Posts: 815 Rating: (123)	romendra Hi, Is there a FAL like instruction available in Portal 12? In fact is there any array manipulation instructions for LAD? Thanks, Romendra Dear Romendra, I have no knowledge of a FAL like instruction. I'd concider switching to SCL, create your own function(which you could use in ldr), use loops to achieve your goal. Also take a look at blkmov and pointers. Kind regards, Jens
	Last edited by: Jens_app at: 8/12/2014 8:27 PM Keep it simple and on-topic. A simple straight-to-the-point answer is often of more quality than a complicated one.
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8/12/2014 8:25 PM	Rate (0)
romendra Posts: 43 Rating: (1)	I figured there isn't any. The problem is tha FAL covers so much, SCL will be too long to create a generic one. I may have to create a specific module. Thanks for the confirmation.
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8/12/2014 8:30 PM	Rate (0)
Jens_app Gold Member Joined: 1/5/2011 Last visit: 11/29/2024 Posts: 815 Rating: (123)	romendra I figured there isn't any. The problem is tha FAL covers so much, SCL will be too long to create a generic one. I may have to create a specific module. Thanks for the confirmation. I did a quick search on the FAL instruction and figured out it has to do with moving one memory area to another. Share with us what it is exactly you are trying to achieve, maybe we can share some code with you.
	Keep it simple and on-topic. A simple straight-to-the-point answer is often of more quality than a complicated one.
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8/12/2014 10:03 PM	Rate (0)
romendra Posts: 43 Rating: (1)	I am trying to convert some rockwell messaging code to tia code. The FAL instructions that is used in the code 2 logical and 1 arithmetic operation. One of those instance is shown in the attached figure. Alarm_Bits_Latched is an array of dint's ( 40 long) Alm_bits_In is an array of dint's( 2 long) So if i create a FB for this, i would have to be specific about the operation. I will try. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks, Romendra Attachment Screen Shot 2014-08-12 at 2.57.30 PM.jpg (288 Downloads)
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8/12/2014 11:28 PM	Rate (0)
William_B Posts: 5225 Rating: (1197)	romendra I am trying to convert some rockwell messaging code to tia code. The FAL instructions that is used in the code 2 logical and 1 arithmetic operation. One of those instance is shown in the attached figure. Alarm_Bits_Latched is an array of dint's ( 40 long) Alm_bits_In is an array of dint's( 2 long) So if i create a FB for this, i would have to be specific about the operation. I will try. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks, Romendra Hi there, Rockwell has a few combination commands that Siemens does not have as a single command. Only the CALC command for S7-1200 / S7-1500 comes close to anything close to a combination command. You will have to deconstruct this command in its individual components. The SCL code will do it the quickest way.. but you will have to create an FB or FC for it. If you are familiar with Rockwell, your next problem would be to hand over the data from one function to another. With what you are used to I would suggest you work with global DB blocks. - or are you familiar with how Siemens handles datablocks within an FB? Pleae see the attached JPEG for an idea. Helpful? w Attachment DESIGN IDEA_Admin for alarm bits.jpg (518 Downloads)
William_B Posts: 5225 Rating: (1197)
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8/13/2014 12:14 AM	Rate (0)
romendra Posts: 43 Rating: (1)	Yeah I am very suprised that Portal does not have any Array manipulation instruction. I created a sample SCL for the FAL. Creating a Global DB is probably the best way to go but for the first go around I am just going to create some arrays and work with them to see how it works. Thanks for the insight.
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8/13/2014 6:45 AM	Rate (0)
William_B Posts: 5225 Rating: (1197)	romendra Yeah I am very suprised that Portal does not have any Array manipulation instruction. I created a sample SCL for the FAL. Creating a Global DB is probably the best way to go but for the first go around I am just going to create some arrays and work with them to see how it works. Thanks for the insight. Hi there. It is the [RISK] vs [CISC] debate all over again, with ROCKWELL software in the CISC corner. (Excuse the inferred pun as to the SIEMENS software.) When using the FAL function, the software creates a code block containing all the instructions to be used, as the program is loaded into the CPU. It is more confinient for the user, but pose a (possible) problem when it comes to getting the code optimisation. The functions I have included in my previous Design Idea is a good example.. look at the reset of CLEAR array words. The FAL function is not a true array handling function.. it is just a very well masked FOR loop with customizable code. Don't get me wrong.. I would love to have a ladder instruction block which you could put one line SCL code into (which Rockwell also have) without having to create an FC / FB for it. Each brand (and CPU) has its own weaknesses and strengths. The bigger picture >> For your project I would suggest that you have a look at the way the alarming works on Siemens panels.. if you are using one. The functioning you want to achieve (my guess) is/can be handled by the panel (HMI). Greetings. w
William_B Posts: 5225 Rating: (1197)
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8/13/2014 10:49 AM	Rate (0)
Jens_app Gold Member Joined: 1/5/2011 Last visit: 11/29/2024 Posts: 815 Rating: (123)	@All: thanks for this discussion @William B.: I love your approach on this, would you be so kind to elaborate the example you gave? (Attachment: DESIGN IDEA_Admin for alarm bits.jpg (3 Downloads)) What is the calculate function used for? Also, can you give me more information about the FAL instruction rockwell works with? Kr, Jens
	Keep it simple and on-topic. A simple straight-to-the-point answer is often of more quality than a complicated one.
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8/13/2014 4:07 PM	Rate (0)
romendra Posts: 43 Rating: (1)	@WilliamB- I get that no one software is perfect and each one has its own drawbacks. I created a sample FAL - SCL last night and as you mentioned it is just an elaborate for loop but the functionality the FAL provides is very useful when working with arrays. I am thankful for the example you provided with the last post. One glaring complain about the portal( you have probably heard before i am sure) is that siemens provided with this rebranded interface but the inner workings are still stuck in the 200/300 days. Just a gripe. @Jens_app - You can find more info on the workings of the FAL instruction here http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/rm/1756-rm003_-en-p.pdf Thanks, Romendra
romendra Posts: 43 Rating: (1)
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