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Force control - how? SOLVED

Created by: Mira at: 1/27/2009 3:09 PM (4 Replies)

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1/27/2009 3:09 PM	Rate (1)
Mira Posts: 16 Rating: (1)	Hello everyone, I need force control and I don't know how to do that. Here's the situation: Simotion P350 + Sinamics S120 (CU320 DP) + non-Siemens motors (both linear and rotary), position-controlled motion works well. I searched the manuals and found function _setforcecommandvalue. Tried to use it, but an alarm occurred: the axis must be configured as "standard with force" (now it's just "standard"). So I tried to configure it that way and then the problem came: configuration wizard wants some external force sensor which I don't have. But actual force value is already transmitted over Profibus by the drive (parameters r80 or r31) and when online, I can see it in the expert list, updating correctly (tested by applying force on stationary motor by hand). So there already is actual force value available and the external sensor shouldn't be needed. The question is: how to access the actual force value and how to configure the axes, so the _setforcecommandvalue (and _runmotioninpositionlockedforceprofile) would work? (The support recommended using Siemens telegram 105 for the drives, add message frame extension to it, connect actual force value there and then it should work even with standard drives, but it doesn't.) Edit: setting 80 (as r80) as sensor logical address doesn't work.
Mira Posts: 16 Rating: (1)	Last edited by: Mira at: 2/26/2009 7:23 PM Last edited by: Mira at: 1/27/2009 3:13 PM
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1/29/2009 7:30 AM	Rate (0)
ChristophD Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 5/12/2006 Last visit: 4/17/2025 Posts: 22620 Rating: (3060)	Hello, when you transfer the actual force values over Profibus with a telegram extension you must use the adress of the telegram extension for the external force sensor. Regards Christoph

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2/2/2009 11:00 AM	Rate (0)
Mira Posts: 16 Rating: (1)	Thank you for the advice. Tried, failed... I've defined a message frame extension (drives-messageframe.gif in the attachment), assigned actual force value in it (messframeext.gif) and tried to make it a force sensor (forcesensorconfig.gif, 280 is address of that message frame extension). It didn't work. If this really can be done this way, there are some more questions: 1) What to set as "number of usable bits"? Maximum is 31, but the force value should be LREAL (at least it is displayed with decimal point in expert list - see driveexplist-forceactvalue.gif). 2) What does "format" mean? I get the signed/unsigned thing, but what justification? Is it something with little/big endian? 3) "Min/max raw value" - if the value is real, what to put here? 4) "Min/max technology value" - here I would put the motor's maximum configured force, right? I'm just confused by that the force is already being transmitted from the drive, in correct physical units (N) and the value seems to be OK. So why to create message frame extensions, define virtual force sensors and recalculate the force from bits, raw and technology values, when it should be easy to just take r80 and use it? But how? I'm using Scout 4.1.1.6 and Simotion core of the same version. Attachment forcecontrol.zip (557 Downloads)
Mira Posts: 16 Rating: (1)	Last edited by: Mira at: 2/2/2009 11:02 AM
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2/2/2009 3:27 PM	Rate (0)
Mira Posts: 16 Rating: (1)	By the way, I found this in the manual: "In V4.0 and higher, a calculated value from the user program can also be specified as the actual sensor value via the cyclically effective forceActualValueSetting.value system variable. Prerequisite is the setting additionalSensorType:=SET_ACTUAL_VALUE." What does it mean? Could it be the thing I'm looking for?
Mira Posts: 16 Rating: (1)
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2/26/2009 7:23 PM	Rate (0)
Mira Posts: 16 Rating: (1)	Problem is solved. The trick is to use torque limiting, not force control. What to do: 1) Use message frame 105, add extension for 1 dword and connect it to r80 (actual force). 2) In axis configuration check field "use technology data block" or the like. Define the axis as "standard", so you get rid of senseless sensor configuration. 3) In axis expert list, configuration data: TypeOfAxis.SetPointDriverInfo.(LinearMotor)DriveData.max(Force or Torque) = max. force or torque [N or Nm] 4) In axis expert list, system variables: UserDefaultTorqueLimiting.torqueLimit = max. force or torque (same as above) 5) Use _enabletorquelimiting() and _disabletorquelimiting(). Many thanks to Mr. Sabata and you all!
Mira Posts: 16 Rating: (1)	Last edited by: Mira at: 2/26/2009 7:26 PM
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