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GPRS - Direct mode or Telecontrol mode is better?

Created by: Abdel-Qader at: 12/24/2013 1:33 PM (7 Replies)

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12/24/2013 1:33 PM	Rate (0)
Abdel-Qader Silver Member Joined: 1/5/2013 Last visit: 11/22/2024 Posts: 283 Rating: (16)	Hi, My network topology is attached. Which is better to use Telecontrol mode (with telecontrol basic server) or direct mode? since i don't have the devices yet, i'm in process by purchasing the hardware equipments and the required software. the communication will be ISO on TCP. 1- maximum number of remote stations that be connected to the central PLC using CP1242-7 with a- direct mode b- remote control mode 2- do the direct mode give the GSM signal strenth? Thanks Attachment SCADA NW Topology v1.2 (SIEMENS Forum).pdf (195 Downloads)

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12/25/2013 11:18 AM	Rate (0)
jklm Platinum Member Joined: 12/22/2006 Last visit: 1/25/2022 Posts: 1742 Rating: (309)	Hello, I understood your drawing like this: You try to collect data in a central PC from remote stations. The central PLC is just used as Gateway between the PC and the remote stations. Correct? Be aware that GPRS (this is the mobile communication supported by the CP1242-7) is limited in bandwidth (typically not more than around 50 kbit/sec in download direction, and less in upload, to be checked with the provider and depending also on the distance to the GSM antenna). The more you will connect remote systems to the central PLC over GPRS, the worse the troughput for each remote system will be. May be you should consider an Internet connection at the central site, wired, + telecontrol server basic. Like depicted here: http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/39863979
	Last edited by: jklm at: 12/25/2013 12:42 PM Last edited by: jklm at: 12/25/2013 11:19 AM Best regards jklm Suggestion was helpful? Feel free to rate it.
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12/25/2013 12:05 PM	Rate (0)
Abdel-Qader Silver Member Joined: 1/5/2013 Last visit: 11/22/2024 Posts: 283 Rating: (16)	Hi, Thank you. Yes correct. Regarding the GPRS and the download issue: - I'm customizing the required data from the sepam in order to limit this issue. - I contacted the service provider and they assigned a special private APN with fixed IPs without internet access but only intra-traffic between the GPRS SIMs. - we are looking for GPRS solution in order for lower monthly fees. In case we will go using telecontrol software we will also use the same hardware in the HMI site. By the way, can we use Ethernet (profinet) interface at the CPU in order for communication and get these data from the substations? This is alternate connection than GPRS. I can get WAN CONNECTION from another provider or special IP VPN network. Thanks

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12/25/2013 12:50 PM	Rate (0)
jklm Platinum Member Joined: 12/22/2006 Last visit: 1/25/2022 Posts: 1742 Rating: (309)	Hello, By the way, I corrected 50 kbyte/sec to 50 kbit/sec for the GPRS download speed. If you can get a wired private IP VPN, you could consider to have an OPC server at the central location using S7 connections. One other major difference beside speed is that a CP1242-7 has a buffering function (in case of communication loss, to cover a certain amount of time). Telecontrol solutions have special features to cope with communication interruptions. And a CP1242-7 can also be used to send an SMS.
	Last edited by: jklm at: 12/25/2013 1:02 PM Best regards jklm Suggestion was helpful? Feel free to rate it.
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12/25/2013 5:21 PM	Rate (0)
Abdel-Qader Silver Member Joined: 1/5/2013 Last visit: 11/22/2024 Posts: 283 Rating: (16)	Thank you. So we are agreed that I can start with GPRS and it is ok for direct mode and I can configure that only 4 simultaneous connections ( 4 remote stations ) that can the central cp 1242-7 get data from the remote 4 stations and for the new remote station I will do some time interval and after that time u can get data from remote station 5 until remote station 8. Right? Is this applicable? If yes, I can also do write from the central cp1242-7 in order if I need to get control for some remote station for example sepam ( power protection relay) reset, trip, or even close. Is it right also? After that or if i need more speed I can use the profinet interface for the central CPU in order to communicate with the remote stations as mentioned above with the profinet interface not the cp 1242-7 but i need WAN connection using for example IP VPN technology between the central and all the remote stations with or without telecontrol software . Agree? Thanks

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12/26/2013 6:02 PM	Rate (0)
jklm Platinum Member Joined: 12/22/2006 Last visit: 1/25/2022 Posts: 1742 Rating: (309)	Hello, For your first suggestion, as told before, I would not use a central PLC, because of the small incoming bandwidth at the central site. But a wired internet connection at the central site instead + telecontrol server basic on the PC (no concentrator PLC at the central site, the remote PLCs send their data directly to the server just like depicted here: http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/51065116 For the second suggestion, again, no central S7-1200, because it cannot accept that much connections. But just an OPC server at the central site. As mentionned before you loose the buffering feature in this case. Still based on a central PC (and again without a concentrator PLC), there is a solution based on DNP3, depicted here: http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/81162841 These comments are my personal opinion. Ask the sales channel in your country to assist you in defining more in detail what the best alternative is, depending on on your requirements.
	Best regards jklm Suggestion was helpful? Feel free to rate it.
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12/26/2013 7:56 PM	Rate (0)
Abdel-Qader Silver Member Joined: 1/5/2013 Last visit: 11/22/2024 Posts: 283 Rating: (16)	Many thanks. If I need to get control from the central site to one of the remote station (I.e send request from the central HMI as mentioned above sepam trip, reset, or close) can be done from the OPC server without central PLC? I would recommend use PLC in the central site since as l mentioned the GPRS SIMs have special APN and no internet , I can't use direct connection or cable connection to the OPC server directly without CP 1242-7. Thanks

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12/27/2013 2:09 PM	Rate (0)
Abdel-Qader Silver Member Joined: 1/5/2013 Last visit: 11/22/2024 Posts: 283 Rating: (16)	Hi, I read the Telecontrol server basic manual and i think it is Ok, but still i have the same question: In the central PC (where the TELECONTROL SERVER BASIC installed ) i can't get a direct or cable connection to that PC (its NIC) since the only available connection is using a GPRS SIM which will be installed at the CP 1242-7. do this configuration OK with TELECONTROL SERVER BASIC?

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