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How can I set up MPI network for progaming two PLC (S 7 300) using common bus with PG Socket Profibus connector cable?

Created by: Vijay_Khatri at: 9/28/2008 10:55 PM (13 Replies)

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9/28/2008 10:55 PM	Rate (0)
Vijay_Khatri Posts: 23 Rating: (2)	Dear All, Find here the block diagram of my project. I am working to connect two S7-300 PLCs to a single HMI Station with WinCC using MPI subnet.Each PLC is controlling different plant. I can not set MPI Subnet for two PLCs. Though I tried using NetPro, but it doest work. Please help to set up a MPI network. Also, Do I need CP to connect MPI subnet to WinCC station? I have MPI adapter and I think I can directly connect the one end of PROFIBS with PG socket to WinCC Station. How does that work? Please help out. Attachment Block Diagram Project Work (Vijay, IIEE).pdf (995 Downloads)
Vijay_Khatri Posts: 23 Rating: (2)
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9/28/2008 11:26 PM	Rate (0)
DeepakD Bronze Member Joined: 11/30/2006 Last visit: 6/7/2024 Posts: 118 Rating: (11)	Vijay_Khatri Dear All, Find here the block diagram of my project. I am working to connect two S7-300 PLCs to a single HMI Station with WinCC using MPI subnet.Each PLC is controlling different plant. I can not set MPI Subnet for two PLCs. Though I tried using NetPro, but it doest work. Please help to set up a MPI network. Also, Do I need CP to connect MPI subnet to WinCC station? I have MPI adapter and I think I can directly connect the one end of PROFIBS with PG socket to WinCC Station. How does that work? Please help out. From your Block Diagram I am not sure whether you are using Profibus betweentwo 314IFM PLC .Since you have shown there Profibus DP Cable with MPI Adaptor. There should not be any problem to configure the MPI Network within PLC's . Yes you need to Install a CP Card like CP5511 /CP5512/CP5611 or CP5612 in WinCC SCADA Station.Then you can configure thisScada on MPI Network .

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9/29/2008 4:47 AM	Rate (0)
dchartier Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 9/27/2006 Last visit: 3/23/2025 Posts: 12344 Rating: (2707)	Hello Vijay; Looking at your diagram, there are a few points I would like clarify: First, using Profibus-DP cable and connectors is the best way of bringing all 3 nodes together over MPI. However, MPI is a bus topology, you wiil have to set them up this way (logical topology): RTU01---------------------------------RTU02-----------------------------WinCC . Second, the MPI ports on the the CPUs are non isolated, which means you cannot use the full RS-485 distances; you are actually limited to 50m. between 2 nodes. So you will have to resort to repeaters to extend that distance. I have worked with Siemens' RS-485 repeaterson many projects (part number 6ES7 972-0AA01-0XA0) and I can recommend them). So your actual topology should look someting like this: \|------------50m \|-----50m \|---------------------------<=50m RTU01--------Repeater-----------RTU02----------------------------WinCC Third, as is shown in the WinCC communication manual (and pointed out by Deeps earlier) you cannot use a PC Adapter to connect WinCC to a MPI Network. Please see the following extract: Introduction In order to establish a communication link between the WinCC station and the MPI network, the WinCC station must be equipped with a suitable communication processor. *Communication processors for communication using MPI* You may use the same communication processors utilized to connect to the PROFIBUS network. Additional information may be found in Chapter "Communication using PROFIBUS/Communication Processors". The following table lists communication processors which may be used to connect a WinCC station to the MPI network. *Communication Processor Build/Type* CP 5613 PCI card/ Hard Net CP 5614 PCI card/ Hard Net CP 5511 PCMCIA card/ Soft Net CP 5611 PCI card/ Soft Net A CP 5611 with Softnet driver should be sufficient for your application, as you will onlyrequire 2 connections to your PLCs (Softnet sup[ports 8 connections, Hardnet up to 44). Hope this helps, Daniel Chartier Edit: While browssing someolder threadson the site, I was reminded of something imortant by a recent post from marcsinclair on MPI networking between S7-200 PLCs: since the MPI ports are not isolated, and you mention 2 different plants (presumably in 2 different buildings), it is very important that a grounding/earthing cable be laid along the Profibus cable so that both CPU chassis can be connected to the same ground potential; this will help with your communications and will protect your electronics from any ground loops in your system. Marc suggests a 2,5 mm2 cable; any large diameter cable will do, the larger the better to minimize resistance. I am presuming here that the WinCCPC is already grounded (through a 3-pronged power connector) to the same potential as one of the PLCs; if not, it would be prudent to continue the grounding/earthing cable to the PC chassis. Regards, Daniel Chartier
	Last edited by: dchartier at: 9/29/2008 5:36 AM Last edited by: dchartier at: 9/29/2008 5:34 AM Added the issue of grounding Last edited by: dchartier at: 9/29/2008 4:47 AM
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9/29/2008 6:02 AM	Rate (0)
john Enthu Posts: 69 Rating: (0)	Dear dchartier, i aggreed with your two points mentioned. but i m not aggreed for the third point you mentioned for MPI adapter communicaton with SCADA. i used to do the MPI communication with wincc and PLC over MPI adapter. here, you need to select system parameter in SCADA to be PC Adapter-MPI. and also, you need to select PC Adapter in Set PG/PC interface settings. As far as MPI networking between two PLC and SCADA is concerned, i aggreed that it is possible without any problem provided your both PLC having different MPI addresses like RTU-1 is hvaingaddress -2 and RTU-2 is having MPI addrsses - 3. your SCADA address shall be by default 0. any problem, let me know.......... regards..........
john Enthu Posts: 69 Rating: (0)
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9/29/2008 6:50 AM	Rate (1)
H-H Platinum Member Joined: 7/2/2008 Last visit: 3/19/2025 Posts: 928 Rating: (309)	Hi there, I agree with John. Things should be working well if you set the right parameters in both WinCC and PG/PC interface Butttttttttttttttt In NETPRO you can't find a PC ADAPTER So, if you are not going to integrate your WinCC project in SIMATIC MANAGER, it's ok. If you are going to integrate WinCC in SIMATIC MANAGER, you will face a problem because you have to put the PC and both PLCs on the same network in NETPRO and to do so in the PC side, you will have to plant a CP like 5611 for example. mm, i don't know if this works or not but i think you can build your project (integrated with the use of the CP only in the configuration) and when you finish your project, change connection parameter in WinCC to work with PC adapter instead of CP. Can i ask something Why did you go for WinCC? You have 2 small PLCs, i'm not seeing any server-client architecture and i'm not expecting a large number of power tags more than 4000. Why don't you go for WinCC flexible ?!
	Last edited by: H-H at: 9/29/2008 6:51 AM
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9/29/2008 10:18 AM	Rate (1)
Ayman Elotaify Platinum Member Joined: 5/28/2008 Last visit: 3/23/2025 Posts: 4518 Rating: (843)	Dear All, I want to explain some points. First of all, you can establish a communication between HMI and PLC stations via MPI network. again I said HMI. It may be WinCC flex. or WinCC. To make an optimized configuration which fullfill the requirements with tle lowest cost, I think that if the WinCC flex can do the job, why going to winCC? I am agree with H-H. To establish the communication, download the first program to the first CPU314-IFM with (for example MPI address:2) and download the second program to the second CPU314-IFM with (for example MPI address:3). [i.e. 2 different MPI address]. After that you can dedecate the MPI network using profibus cables and sockets. Then you can communicate [from the Simatic manager of from the HMI software] with the both CPUs using.. 1. PC adapter connectet to any of the CPUs. 2. CP5611A2 or CP5613A2. Regards,
	Ayman Elotaify
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9/29/2008 6:04 PM	Rate (0)
Vijay_Khatri Posts: 23 Rating: (2)	Sir, you are right. DP was written mistakenly, though I can not use a DP connector with 314IFM because it has MPI ntegrated connector. I am still confused about whether I will need a CP! Because on contacting Siemens in Pakistan, I got to know that I do not need to use CP for this setup. Thanks.
Vijay_Khatri Posts: 23 Rating: (2)
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9/29/2008 6:13 PM	Rate (0)
Vijay_Khatri Posts: 23 Rating: (2)	Sir, My project is a student project. I am not concerned with distances. But I only have one PROFIBUS cable with PG/PC socket at one end. So I have only one choice to route my system in this way. RTU1....[PROFIBUS]....[50 m].......[RTU2]----[MPI Adapter+MPI Cable]......PC (WinCC station) Also repeaters are very expensive. Can not buy. Also, I was also confused to have already read that Communication manual. Since I contacted local Siemens, and they said I do not need CP to set up this confugration. But I think I should try to set up this using MPI Adpater first. If unfortunalty it doest work then I will have to go for CP. Thanks. Also, WinCC flexible is not suitable for my project, becuase I want to design this project with SCADA Functionalities, so WinCC flexible can not do that I guess because it is only HMI software. Thanks sir. Share any concerns please
Vijay_Khatri Posts: 23 Rating: (2)
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9/29/2008 6:24 PM	Rate (0)
Vijay_Khatri Posts: 23 Rating: (2)	Sir, Let me try your first advice. That not to integrate WinCC in SIMATIC Manager. Will it work properly. I mean will I be able to get data from both the nodes? PLC? Also, I do not think so WinCC Flexible can offer the functionalites of SCADA system like Archiving, Web-Nevigator etc. So I have to use WinCC SCADA anyway to fulfil my desire for Complete SCADA system. Also, going to Server client confugration is later option. This is student project. Sir, first I work this, I can set up server client concept. I hope I am not wrong. Can not we just set up this confugration (in block diagram) for a small industry, I mean for ONE Operator only?
Vijay_Khatri Posts: 23 Rating: (2)
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9/29/2008 6:31 PM	Rate (0)
Vijay_Khatri Posts: 23 Rating: (2)	Sir, This is what I need to know. Please revise the following method. Please correct me I am wrong. Listen, I should first download a program for a plant into a CPU with a unique MPI address say, 3. Then keep that PLC aside. Now I should connect other PLC to PC/PG, and assign a different address say, 4 and download the program. Right. Now I must route the MPI network using Profibus with PG/PC sockets. And then connect the MPI adapter to PC with WinCC installed on it. Now, I can use MPI address to access data from each PLC using Tags? Right? Do I need to keep GAPE in assigning MPI addresses? Is there any logic? I read some where that keeping gaps in MPI address over a network sound technical! is that really is?
Vijay_Khatri Posts: 23 Rating: (2)
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