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Inertia Compensation in WInders and Unwinders

Created by: Navnag at: 7/19/2012 6:43 AM (5 Replies)

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7/19/2012 6:43 AM	Rate (0)
Navnag Platinum Member Joined: 11/21/2007 Last visit: 9/25/2024 Posts: 2325 Rating: (308)	Hello Experts We are using SINAMICS DCM for Winder / Unwinder application. The Drives are connected over Profibus to a S7-400 PLC system. Both the drives are receiving the following signals over profibus : a) Speed Setpoint ( Ramped from PLC ) b) Torque Limit We need to provide inertial compensation during accleration / deceleration. My queries are : a) Can we use the internal Inertia Compensation while giving Torque limit from PLC ? If yes how. b) If We calculate the Inertia Compensation in PLC and Add to the Torque Limits then should the limit be added / subtracted for Winder / Unwinder during accleration / deceleration. Presently We are adding the additional torque limit to the Winder during accleration and Unwinder during deceleration and vice versa Thanks Navnag
	Last edited by: Navnag at: 7/19/2012 9:13 AM There is no such thing as the last bug in a program There are no stubborn bugs, There are only stubborn Debuggers.
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7/19/2012 6:36 PM	Rate (0)
VTambe Posts: 5 Rating: (2)	Inertia compensation should be calculate and set in PLC as it is require accelaration and speed ref input in case the compensation is set at drive i feel the dynamic response will be afetced.
VTambe Posts: 5 Rating: (2)
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7/19/2012 6:51 PM	Rate (0)
Navnag Platinum Member Joined: 11/21/2007 Last visit: 9/25/2024 Posts: 2325 Rating: (308)	Thanks VTambe We are planning to do it in the PLC only ( as we are doing the Speed setpoint Ramping in PLC only ). I am still confused about the polirity of the compensation to the winder / unwinder during Accleration / Deceleration. Cheers Navnag
	There is no such thing as the last bug in a program There are no stubborn bugs, There are only stubborn Debuggers.
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7/21/2012 9:47 AM	Rate (0)
Navnag Platinum Member Joined: 11/21/2007 Last visit: 9/25/2024 Posts: 2325 Rating: (308)	Can someone shed more light on this topic ?? Thanks Navnag
	There is no such thing as the last bug in a program There are no stubborn bugs, There are only stubborn Debuggers.
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7/21/2012 3:12 PM	Rate (1)
dchartier Grandmaster Joined: 9/27/2006 Last visit: 12/7/2024 Posts: 12301 Rating: (2692)	Hello Navnag; Here is a very good disussion (from another PLC site)on Winders and inertia compensation. You should specially take notice of the comments of Peter Nachtwey (he is Delta Computers, which makes stand-alone motion controllers for delicate and demandingapplications in hydraulics systems, so he knows what he is talking about, and he understands the math behind the logic): torque winder vs. speed winder Siemens on the other hand proposes a solution that is imbeded in the drive: http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/38043750 See the attached picture to have an idea of how inertia compensation is treated in this application. By the way. this application is described as "free of charge" if you choose to go that way further. I understand that you have to contact the unit mentionned in the last page of the presentation to recieve it. Hope this helps, Daniel Chartier Attachment Inertia compensation- winder application.jpg (687 Downloads)

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7/21/2012 5:03 PM	Rate (0)
Navnag Platinum Member Joined: 11/21/2007 Last visit: 9/25/2024 Posts: 2325 Rating: (308)	Thanks dchartier These are interesting links and give an insight into the Winder control applications. I my application, we need to provide variable inertia compensation depending on the Winder Diameter, material width, density etc. I have written a S7 Block which can calculate the Torque required for inertia compensation. This is added to the the Torque setpoint given to the drive. The Compensation is being added as Follows : ( Say Set Torque = Tset and Accl. Torque = Tacc ) a) Winder ( Motoring ) - Acclerating : Tset + Tacc b) Winder ( Motoring ) - Decelerating : Tset - Tacc c) Winder (Regeneration ) - Acclerating : Tset - Tacc d) Winder (Regeneration) - Declerating : Tset + Tacc This is with the understanding that If a Drive is in Regeneration then It needs a Lower Torque limit to Maintain Tension while if it is in Motoring mode then it needs additional torque to overcome inertia. Am i on the right track ? Cheers Navnag Is this O.K.
	There is no such thing as the last bug in a program There are no stubborn bugs, There are only stubborn Debuggers.
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