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MIgration from APT to S7

Created by: Lucian Vasiliu at: 1/13/2014 2:01 AM (6 Replies)

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1/13/2014 2:01 AM	Rate (0)
Lucian Vasiliu Posts: 3 Rating: (0)	Hi there, I have an application in hand that needs to be converted to something newer/better The system in hand comprises 1. The Main Rack contains the CPU (TI545 and 386/ATM)and I/O cards and is housed in the control room. PLC programmed using APT 2. The Extension Rack contains I/O cards and is located remotely 3. The HMI is located beside the Main Rack and consists of a PC running WIN7 PRO 32-bit and Wonderware InTouch communicating with the PLC via an Ethernet switch. 4. An engineering station consisting of a laptop PC is located beside the HMI and is used to maintain the PLC program PLC I/O COUNT as following: DI-64 D0-64 AI-48 RTD-40 AO-24 ATTACHED PICTURES WITH MAIN RACK We identify two options: to replace the whole system using a small PCS7 system or to keep Wonderware and replace the TI system with an S7 317 configuration.based on cost customer wants to select the S7 317 solution. What do you think? Is it even possbile to replace APTcode with S7 or it is too risky? thanks and best regards, Lucian Attachment PHOTOS_MAIN_RACK.zip (905 Downloads)
Lucian Vasiliu Posts: 3 Rating: (0)	Last edited by: O_Moderator at: 1/14/2014 11:09 AM attachment reattached
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1/13/2014 9:57 AM	Rate (0)
SamTheEagle Bronze-Expert Joined: 2/10/2006 Last visit: 10/8/2024 Posts: 148 Rating: (12)	Hello Lucian, to upgrade the PLC hardware you could use CTI Hardware. 100 % compatible with TI505 Hardware. http://www.controltechnology.com/products For APT programs you could use the APT Replacement product from Fastrak. http://www.fast-soft.com/page.php?161 you can keep your existing APT program, no need to rewrite code. Regards, Carlo

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1/13/2014 1:45 PM	Rate (0)
Lucian Vasiliu Posts: 3 Rating: (0)	Hi Carlo,thanks a lot for your answer it is very much appreciated. Being a Siemens guy, I would have to stick with the Siemens solution, although what you are proposing sounds very straight forward.I am still waiting for a feedback as to is this job possible with only S7 or I would need PCS7Thanks Carlo and best regards,Lucian
Lucian Vasiliu Posts: 3 Rating: (0)
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1/13/2014 7:24 PM	Rate (0)
billwest Posts: 510 Rating: (117)	Lucian, APT was developed in conjunction with a Texas Instruments process control system, TIStar. TIStar was renamed PCS when Siemens bought the Industrial Systems Division from Texas Instruments. PCS7 incorporates many of the concepts of APT and PCS as well as the Siemens product TelePerm. I haven't worked with PCS7 for 10 years, so I don't know of an easy conversion from APT to PCS7. You may want to post that question on the PCS7 forum. Good luck, billwest
billwest Posts: 510 Rating: (117)
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1/13/2014 8:54 PM	Rate (0)
Lucian Vasiliu Posts: 3 Rating: (0)	Hi Bill, Thanks a lot for your feedback and advice I will also open up a case with our PCS7 guys. I have one last question for you if I may, in regards to APT to S7 only. If we want to migrate APT not to PCS7 but only to S7 and keep Wonderware in the picture do you think this is doable? Are there any tricky portion of the migration, knowking that is going to be done maunaly? Shoould we keep SFC in order to implement the same sequencer or maybe covertto ladder logic? Any hint would be very much appreciated but ultimately Iwould feel more confortable to know your general opinion about migrating from APTto S7, while keeping the HMI as Wonderware. Thanks and best regards, Lucian
Lucian Vasiliu Posts: 3 Rating: (0)
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1/13/2014 11:49 PM	Rate (0)
billwest Posts: 510 Rating: (117)	Lucian, You face several problems in your migration to S7 without PCS7. First the Chart editor, CFC, in Step7 does not include a library of devices you need to generate the APT code. The libraries are only sold with PCS7. SFC (Sequential Function Charts) are only sold with PCS7. Graph is the S7 version sequential charts and it is insufficient for APT translation. So S7 standard software will not have everything you need. Good luck, billwest
billwest Posts: 510 Rating: (117)
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1/14/2014 11:28 AM	Rate (0)
SamTheEagle Bronze-Expert Joined: 2/10/2006 Last visit: 10/8/2024 Posts: 148 Rating: (12)	Here's an intermediate solution with PCS7 PCS7 has an add on that is called PCS7/OPEN OS http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/74758742 This add on allows you to connect third party systems to PCS7. in V8.0 it supports the channels that are included in WinCC. WinCC has a channel called 505 TCP/IP. With this channel you are able to connect directly to the existing TI545 PLC. The TI545 is already equipped with a CTI 2572-A card (you can see that on the photo of the PLC) You could communicate directly to this Ethernet communications card. Actually you wouldn't need to change anything on the PLC level, you could in a first stage keep the PLC just like it is and replace the SCADA level with PCS7/OPEN OS. Afterwards the customer can decide if he wants to upgrade the existing TI545 with the CTI solution i mentioned before or if he wants to do a complete replacement of the PLC with an S7 PLC. The advantage of this solution is that you wouldn't need to do re-engineering of the PLC program. I agree with Bill West, APT is an object oriented programming language, kind of like a predecessor of the PCS7 engineering system. it already included features like technological objects, CFC's, SFC's, you will not have those in STEP7. On the other hand re-engineering the PLC program in the PCS7 engineering system would probably also involve a considerable cost Regards, Carlo

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