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Motor Tunning with Sinamic S 120

Created by: simaticmanager at: 5/26/2009 1:58 PM (14 Replies)

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5/26/2009 1:58 PM	Rate (0)
simaticmanager Posts: 150 Rating: (5)	hi all, i m working on a project with sinamic s 120 with siemens servo motors (1PH7) Iwant to know the standard way of tunning the motor through starterCan any one give me any link or information regarding the same. vivek
simaticmanager Posts: 150 Rating: (5)
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5/26/2009 4:25 PM	Rate (0)
Dave Posts: 271 Rating: (29)	Hello Simaticmanager, Generally speaking with Sinamics S120 operating a 1PH7 motor or motors in servo mode there is little or no tuning necessary. If 1PH7 motors are used, the inertia of the load is usually high and so is the motor; therefore, the performance typically needed is not so great! This means that the default settings for the proportional and integral gains for the velocity loop in the drive are more than adequate in most cases. Secondly, since you're using a 1PH7 motor, there is no need to adjust the current loop gains either. In rare occasions there might be needs for slight adjustments to the velocity loop for p1460 or p1462 when using encoder feedback. Another topic are the settings for current limit, torque and power. Current limit is set via p0640, torque limits are set via p1520 + p1521 and power limits are set via p1530 + p1531. Therefore, you can set for S1 continuous duty or S6 duty rated values as necessary. Hope this helps...
Dave Posts: 271 Rating: (29)
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6/4/2009 3:39 PM	Rate (0)
simaticmanager Posts: 150 Rating: (5)	Dear Dave, First of all sorry for late replying and Thnks For Response, But i have still some doubts cos i am asking this with reference to wire drawing application and as per my past experiences for this application with simovert master drive and MM440 the basic tunning parameters does not work. As the wire size at each block is variable so i had to readjust the tunning parameters for higher wire size or higer reduction per area. If i perform autotunning the motors run fine on no load but when i starts taking trials on load some of blocks do not perform well if i try to increase the dynamics to overcome the loading prob the system tends to become jerky. I want to know if i try to manual tune the speed controller by taking the traces which konnectors except act speed(encoder) should i monitor and which parameter excepts speed controller gain and time i should look after. regrd vivek
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6/4/2009 9:45 PM	Rate (1)
Dave Posts: 271 Rating: (29)	Hello Vivek, Your application is wire drawing; therefore, it is similar to a rolling mill for steel, etc., except that the material is more pliable. I have no experience with MasterDrives or MicroMaster. I have to assume that the motor and drive are selected correctly for the application. At no load your motor will be tuned to the inertia of the load connected (e.g., gearbox, belt + pulleys, roller wheels, etc.). When you load the drive with larger wire sizes, the amount of torque required goes up. You say that the system becomes jerky. What is important to determine isthe frequency of the instability (i.e., jerkiness). What is happening to the utilization of the drive? Is it going up to 100%? If so, you need to increase the torque or power limits above the S1 settings perhaps. Verfiy the motor and motor module have been selected for the job at hand. Is S1 duty okay or do you need S6-60% or S6-40% or higher? This could be the source of your stability. When you say you increase the dynamics, what does this mean? My guess is for you to increase the ability of the drive to handle the load within the RMS ratings of the drive and motor selected. Making measurements of the velocity setpoint, actual speed and utilization should give you a good idea of what's going on here. Hope this helps...
Dave Posts: 271 Rating: (29)
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6/6/2009 10:52 AM	Rate (0)
simaticmanager Posts: 150 Rating: (5)	Daer Dave, Thnks for ur valuable suggestion, Here i should give some more info that there is no doubt regarding motor and drive selection. By increasing dynamics i mean to say to increase the gain of speed controller. Further i will make measurements about drive utilization, its a good suggestion . Can u please describe in detaills about S1 duty and similar terms or can u give some link to have some brief detaills about it thnks vivek
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6/10/2009 6:50 PM	Rate (0)
Dave Posts: 271 Rating: (29)	Hello Vivek, Attached is a description of S1 duty (i.e., continuous). Hope this helps... Attachment S1_Duty_type_from ABC_of_Motors.pdf (870 Downloads)
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6/28/2009 3:50 PM	Rate (0)
Subba Posts: 39 Rating: (2)	Dear Vivek, I am not sure that you have finished the job or not. This information is not useful if you have already done. For optimizing the servo motors, we can use the automatic controller settings and select the speed loop after filter option. there are 4 steps involved, if you dont have a hanging axis you can carry out all these steps continuosly or you can carry out one by one. This will help you to increase your acc and decc parameters which very much required to improve the dynamics of the motor. diffult valuse of KP and Tn are good enough if the motor is connected directly. I still prefer to optimize the motor to improve the dynamics. Subba
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7/8/2009 3:03 PM	Rate (0)
simaticmanager Posts: 150 Rating: (5)	dear subba, can u please describe wht are those four steps u r talking about how can i perform those i m still working on the project though i m able to run the machine successfully but i m not satisfied with the smoothness of machine the reason is speed controller is not well tunned. i am giving here some quick info of the application There are 14 no. of drums with dia 450 mm. At the entry side the wire(bid wire)dia is 5 mm and at the finish side it is 1.4 mm.Before every drum wire passes through a die. The 14th block is master block and preceding blocks(drums) have dancer for speed corrections. At the last there is a winder with dancer The first 4 drums have double stage belt drive and remaining have singal stage belt drive. I addopted the following procedure After configuration i did stationary measurement and speed controller optimization with sensor with wizard for all blocks i did some manual correction with kp and tn of speed controller But i still facing prob at the start and stop of machine as sometyms any one of the 14 blocks got trip saying Drive motor stalled i checked eathing and emc checkpoint i did not found so much noise there i also monitor the sound of motor there are much more humming. i tried to tune speed controller again but did not get the satisfactory results
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7/8/2009 3:45 PM	Rate (0)
Dave Posts: 271 Rating: (29)	Hello Simaticmanager,While in STARTER and with your project open, click on the menu item "Target system". Under this menu is a selection called "Automatic controller setting". If you conduct this automatic setting feature of STARTER, it will go through all four (4) steps for you and it will warn you about a vertical axis when tuning the current loop of the drive. When it is finished, the proportional and integral gain settings for the speed control loop will be automatically adjusted. Also, it will determine if there are any current setpoint filters that may be necessary to dampen out mechanical resonances for your axis. The four steps are: 1) Measurement of the mechanical system, Part 1 2) Measurement of the mechanical system, Part 2 3) Identification of the current loop and 4) Calculation of the speed controller setting. With a training course by Siemens the instructor could guide you through this technique using a manual method. Also, there are some tips in the help within STARTER. Hope this helps...
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7/9/2009 8:02 AM	Rate (0)
simaticmanager Posts: 150 Rating: (5)	dear dave thnks again Arethese 4 steps are different from autotunning (P340) and (p1910) i.e. Stationary measurement turning measurement etc. regards simaticmanager
simaticmanager Posts: 150 Rating: (5)	Last edited by: simaticmanager at: 7/9/2009 8:03 AM
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