5/20/2012 11:52 AM | |
Posts: 131 Rating: (4) |
i have readed about PID but i still dont understand what is that.. i will like to get an example about it simple one notcomplexebled |
5/20/2012 12:47 PM | |
Joined: 1/28/2009 Last visit: 1/19/2025 Posts: 6858 Rating: (1366) |
Hello, Please follow tips mentioned here to find out more on PID in S71200 controllers. TIPS for PID (FB PID_Compact)Best regards,Hamid Hosseini |
5/20/2012 1:58 PM | |
Posts: 131 Rating: (4) |
i does not help me to i dont know what is that PID what is the explanation i know that it translate from 1 to 2 please help me :) |
5/20/2012 3:31 PM | |
Joined: 9/27/2006 Last visit: 1/25/2025 Posts: 12330 Rating: (2702) |
Hello Boaz; When you start looking at PID control, it means you are starting to look at closed-loop controls of processes, such as level in a basin, temperature in an oven, flow in a pipe, position in a crane operation, pH in a chemical process... In each of these case you will want to maintain a precise value (controlled variable) at a given value (setpoint), analyzing the difference between the two (error). PID is one of the algorithms developped by mathematicians and applied by PLC programmers to contrrol these process variables. A genericdescription ofPID can be found on Wikipedia, you could do worse than have a look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller The term PID comes from the 3 mathematical operators used to minimize the error between the setpoint and the catual value of the process (the level, the temperature, the speed you want to control). -P (proportional) determines the strength of the response to the immediate value of the error. -I (integral) examines how the error is moving over time and adjusts the response so that it is not too strong (causing overshoots). -D(derivative) tries to estimate how the error could evolve in the future, and anticipates a response before the error starts to increase. This term is more difficult to calculate and can cause instability, so it not always used, The response to a propcess controlled by PID is the sum of the selected operators : you can have a pure P-controller (see the links below), a PI-controller (most commonly used closed-loop control algorithm), a PID controller... each with its own typical curve of response. If you are willing to spend a few hours examining the PID loop, I can recommendsomevery basic, very clear and un-mathematic descriptions of the various terms of PID, by a gentleman named ron Beaufort, who has written much on the subject: http://ronbeaufort.com/WhatIsP.pdf http://ronbeaufort.com/WhatIsI.pdf http://ronbeaufort.com/WhatIsD.pdf http://ronbeaufort.com/WhyNotPOnly.pdf The next issue will probablybe: how do I calculate the value of the parameters to control a specific loop? This is called PID tuning, and we can help you when you get to that point. It requires a bit more training which is available in many manuals and webpages, and it has been dicussed often on this very forum. But first start by reading up on the basics of the PID loop in order to unserstand the elements of process control. Hope this helps, Daniel Chartier |
Last edited by: dchartier at: 5/20/2012 3:35 PM |
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8/20/2012 2:33 PM | |
Joined: 9/27/2006 Last visit: 1/25/2025 Posts: 12330 Rating: (2702) |
Hello salrandazzo; Let's see if we can answer some of your questions. By the way, I must admit I have never used the PID instruction with a S7-1200, these answersare based on my experience with S7-300 and S7-400 PLCs; the algorithm seems to bethe same implementation, basically. The information in the attached document is extracted from the following source: SIMATIC S7 S7-1200 Programmable controller 1- As you can see in the attachment, Input is a REAL variable, which means a floating-point value that has been scaled to give you enginnering units; 0.0 - 100.0%, 10.0 - 250.0 gpm... Input_PER is a word value, expressed in binary (_PER means "periphery", or analog channel). The value expected here is the address of the analog input channel (PIWxxx) where the process value will be read by the CPU; you do not scale this value. In you case, your signal being 4-20 mA will be digitized in a 0-27648 by the analog input card A/D circuit, and the PID loop will use this value directly in its calculations. 2- Same thing for the outputs. "Output" should be sent to an unscaling block before it can be used by the analog output channel to control your valve, or motor... Whereas Output_PER is already expecting the analog channel address as a parameter(PQWxxx), where the D/A circuit of the module will output the correct voltage (in your case). 3. A PWM output is generally used to control heating solenoids, in resistance coil applications. 4. Correct.The value of ManualValue will be sent to both Output and Output_PER (notice that they can be both active inparallel, so you can send the controller output value to the controller (directly to the analog output channel)and to the HMI (in Engineering units) in parallel if you want to 5. As you can see in the attachment, the value"w - x" is recurrent in all three sections of the PID equation. This is the "error", calculated internally at every cycle of the PID loop, and the calculation of the controller output is an amalgam of Proposrtional, Integral and Derivative terms appliedto this error. Hope this helps, Daniel Chartier Edit: You might be interested in the following link provided by Siemens. It presents a series of tutorials on the programming of the S7-1200 PLC. Chapter M06 introduces closed-loop control (PID) and should help you clarify some of your issues. http://www.automation.siemens.com/mcms/sce/en/advanced_training/training_material/download_training_material/m_series_simatic_s7_1200_sps/pages/default.aspx?HTTPS=REDIR D.C. |
Last edited by: dchartier at: 8/20/2012 7:59 PMLost attachment Last edited by: dchartier at: 8/20/2012 7:50 PMSorry, I meant: "Added link to the S7-1200 tutorials" Last edited by: dchartier at: 8/20/2012 7:48 PMAddeed link to the S7-100 turorials |
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8/22/2012 12:40 AM | |
Posts: 57 Rating: (8) |
Thanks a lot Dchartier! Complete and fast answer! |
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