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Problem with block openning.

Created by: Morpher at: 11/10/2009 4:00 PM (7 Replies)

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11/10/2009 4:00 PM	Rate (0)
Morpher Regular Member Joined: 11/10/2009 Last visit: 8/26/2022 Posts: 11 Rating: (0)	Hello I've got some strange problem with one program. I uploaded it to my PC from the S7-300 PLC installed in one machine. Then I tried to open blocks to diagnose what is responsible for not good functioning. I tried to open OB1 block, unfortunately instead of familiar window with block's code I saw two following messages: (34:40) Compiler information type conflict and then: (30:1) Unable to open the block I thought that there is a problem with version of Step 7 so I upgraded it up to SP5 but without any good result. I thought that maybe I would be able to see OB1 online but again I saw the above two messages. All other blocks I am able to open. OB1 has no KNOW_HOW_PROTECTION. Simatic Managers displays that it was created in LAD and when online it informs that OB1 is in EPROM. I thought that there is some conflict with language or Regional Settings but I am able to see other blocks. I've attached compressed program. Do you have any ideas how to solve my problem? Attachment Program.zip (107 Downloads)

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11/10/2009 4:27 PM	Rate (0)
Ammy Platinum Member Joined: 4/19/2008 Last visit: 1/17/2023 Posts: 1525 Rating: (159)	Hi Morpher, I also try to open the Block but it also give me the same problem, While opening project also it give me the problem so I have deleted the Language file in project Global folder. Can youtry toopen OB1 inAccessible nodes, Please do that & tell me one more thing, who has done the programing for this PLC.
	Ammy New for every one.............. “No duty is more urgent than that of returning thanks.” If Problem Solved......! I can't help you privately - please post in the Forums
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11/10/2009 4:47 PM	Rate (0)
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (259)	Also a question - can you upload OB1 to your PG (copy from online view or via upload whole station)?
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (259)
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11/16/2009 12:44 AM	Rate (0)
Morpher Regular Member Joined: 11/10/2009 Last visit: 8/26/2022 Posts: 11 Rating: (0)	OK I see I must explain few things and answer your questions and I'm going to do it but first I must tell you that I have opened the OB1 block and if you want to find out how right now then go to the end of this message. If you are not in a hurry ( but who is not ??? ) then ... I am an automation engineer in some cartoon boards and boxes manufacturing company. I've been working here for three months but I have over 11 years of experience with different kinds of automation systems including programming of PLCs (Siemens S5, S7, Telemecanique, Mitsubishi etc.) and robots (Fanuc, Motoman, Kuka, Abb). It is quite unusual but I am first (and only) automation specialist employed by the company. The managers are not aware of what they should require from machine developers and suppliers. All machines are equipped only in technical documentation but without (source) programs for PLCs or inverters, servodrives etc. As a consequence the company spent huge money on after-guarantee support. They employed me to reduce those costs. First thing that I planned to do when I started to work for my new company was to make backups. The machine with that “unopenable” OB1 block is quite new. It has been here for few months. It is made by some French company. I do not know the programmer. I am going to ask that company for help but it does not solve potential after-guarantee problems. I wouldn't even know about the mentioned problem but machine operators told me that when the choose special option the machine is behaving incorrectly. One gate is closing too soon. It looks like some timer is initiated with too small value. So I thought I would look around inside the program and search for possible cause. I know that without symbolic list it can be very hard but I used to solve problems in machines even with no documentation at all. For this one I've got at least the electrical diagram with PLC I/O description. So I connected to the PLC, uploaded the program to my laptop (with menu “Upload Station to PG”) and tried to open the OB1 block. It was not possible. I described you behavior of Step 7 software. I tried to go online. The list of blocks appeared but I was not able to open the OB1 and saw the same set of error messages. I am really confused because people from Siemens support in Poland and Germany weren't able to help me. I don't know if there are any techniques to create or convert programs for Simatic S7 to protect them from opening. I can make such programs for Simatic S5 with Step 5 software but I haven't heard about such a possibility in Step 7. I've just thought about something ... and last, strange, confusing and a little funny thing is that it was a good idea... I've downloaded IBH Softec S5/S7 for Windows, installed and made a try. IBH software opens the block. You can check it yourselves. The block looks “a little bit” strange. I must think over what to do next and am going to ask Siemens why Step 7 is not able to open the block. I will keep you informed … CU

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11/16/2009 4:57 PM	Rate (0)
Ammy Platinum Member Joined: 4/19/2008 Last visit: 1/17/2023 Posts: 1525 Rating: (159)	Morpher I've just thought about something ... and last, strange, confusing and a little funny thing is that it was a good idea... I've downloaded IBH Softec S5/S7 for Windows, installed and made a try. IBH software opens the block. You can check it yourselves. The block looks “a little bit” strange. I must think over what to do next and am going to ask Siemens why Step 7 is not able to open the block. Hi Morpher, can you please provide the screen shots for the OB1 code so we can also try to look what the orignal programmer done, or there is some other problem. thanks for giving the idea. it will help us some time.
	Ammy New for every one.............. “No duty is more urgent than that of returning thanks.” If Problem Solved......! I can't help you privately - please post in the Forums
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11/16/2009 11:50 PM	Rate (0)
Morpher Regular Member Joined: 11/10/2009 Last visit: 8/26/2022 Posts: 11 Rating: (0)	Hi there I attached OB1.zip file. It contains listings of OB1 block both in STL and LAD format exported to pdf files. Attachment OB1.zip (124 Downloads)

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11/17/2009 1:05 AM	Rate (1)
fritz Diamond Expert Joined: 10/7/2005 Last visit: 5/29/2023 Posts: 2965 Rating: (1025)	Hello Morpher the problem is that your uploaded OB1 has an OUT variable which is most likely caused by using the word "RET_VAL" for a TEMP variable of OB1 (when programmed with S7 for Windows) and the reason that Step 7 (quite rightly) complains now! S7 for Windows is (fortunately or unfortunately, depending which way you look at it) less strict when it comes to these things and does allow youto use the word "RET_VAL" for a temp variable in an OB (and converts it to an OUT and has no problems with this either). Anyway, attached is pic that shows the problem and the fix is simple: Use S7 for Windows to change the name of "RET_VAL" to something else,remove the "OUT" declaration" from itand attach it to the RET_VAL of the SFC20 call in NW1. You can then use Step 7 to open OB1 Ihope this helps P.S: If you have S5 left on site that were programmed with S5 for Windows watch out for PB's that have jumps and/or any other "advanced" S5 commandsin it (S5 for Windows allows this in PB's, Step 5 does only allow this in FB's and FX's). Attachment OB1 OUT variable.jpg (267 Downloads)
	Cheers fritz The advice and opinion given in this thread is that of the author and does not necessarily reflect the views of I S Systems Pty Limited. To find out how I S Systems can help you with your automation needs please visit www.issystems.com.au.
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This contribution was helpful to 1 thankful Users Ammy

11/17/2009 2:32 PM	Rate (0)
Morpher Regular Member Joined: 11/10/2009 Last visit: 8/26/2022 Posts: 11 Rating: (0)	Hello fritz Thank you for your help. That was why I wrote before that OB1 looks "a little bit" strange. If you make deeper check of this block you will findat least one strange thing. Check Network 2 (Segment 2), Network 10 (Segment 10) and use of variable #TEMP10 The only thing that is hard to accept for me is that PLC processes such wrong programs. Siemens Step 5 software allow experienced programmer with very deep-in knowledge to create "specific" programs that work properly but demand very carefuldiagnostic, backup and especially "compression". It is possible to make working program and have working machine while PLC i neither in RUN nor in STOP modeetc. AnywayI see that you have deep-in knowledge and practiceand thank you very much for your explanation. Take care Morpher

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This contribution was helpful to 1 thankful Users fritz

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