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S120 motor braking BR+ BR- terminals multiple motors single motor module

Created by: picengineer123 at: 6/16/2009 4:47 PM (8 Replies)

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6/16/2009 4:47 PM	Rate (0)
picengineer123 Posts: 95 Rating: (0)	Hello I am desiging a drive system with the following basic setup 480VAC Smart line module for DC Buss CU 320 controller ( one for smart line and one motor module, booksize format) CU 320 controller ( 3 motor modules, two booksize, one chassis) The end customer wants to place two motors on each of 2 booksize motor modules sized to handle the load. They will isolate each motor with a contactor. They also want to utilize motor brakes on all motors. The motor modules are capable of directly controlling a brake based on the wiring diagrams via terminals BR+ and BR-. I cannot find information on the function of these terminals and I believe I have all the sinamics S PDFs. My questions are: What is the function of this output for braking? Can I control two motor brakes via this output? thanks
picengineer123 Posts: 95 Rating: (0)
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6/16/2009 5:19 PM	Rate (0)
Dave Posts: 271 Rating: (29)	Hello Picengineer123, One of the key words in your post is " function". I encourage you to look in the Sinamics S120 Function Manual Edition 10/2008. Go to Section 6.13 beginning on page 224 for "Simple brake control" and Section 7.4 beginning on page 256 for "Extended brake control". Later on in this manual is SBC functions, too. Hope this helps...
Dave Posts: 271 Rating: (29)
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6/29/2009 5:18 PM	Rate (0)
picengineer123 Posts: 95 Rating: (0)	Dave Thanks for your comments, I have those manuals and it seems straight forward. I have been stewing on the issue of having two motors on this single motor module. The end customer has requested isolating contactors between the motor module and each motor. It is here that my question arises. Why the two contactors? I have seen overloads when there are multiple motors on a single VFD. It is because there are two contactors that I though the brakes for both motors would operate independently. I don't that that is the case and my original question is unnecessary. thanks
picengineer123 Posts: 95 Rating: (0)
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6/30/2009 8:15 AM	Rate (1)
RAM81 Silver Member Joined: 3/3/2008 Last visit: 10/5/2023 Posts: 333 Rating: (51)	hi normally it is not adviced to connect two motor to the same brake terminals, i have attached some documents which gives you information about the BR+ and BR- with regards ram Attachment brake.pdf (803 Downloads)

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7/1/2009 3:45 PM	Rate (0)
pfuser Silver Member Joined: 9/18/2006 Last visit: 9/2/2024 Posts: 591 Rating: (64)	Hi. Probably it will help you. Best regards. Attachment Motor changeover.pdf (572 Downloads)

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11/12/2009 10:01 PM	Rate (0)
picengineer123 Posts: 95 Rating: (0)	Hello everyone I am finally commissioning these drive units. I have followed the instructions to enable the holding brake. I have a chassis unit which does not have the BR+ and BR- terminals and it was easier to enable that brake. I used a digital output from it's control unit and enabled P1215 (set to a 1) and it works well. However I enabled the same paramater in the booksize motor module and I get no output voltage at terminals BR+ and BR-. I have attached a screen grab of my starter page showing the brake control and it indicates it should be on. Any ideas? regards John Attachment MotorBrakeJPg.jpg (523 Downloads)
picengineer123 Posts: 95 Rating: (0)
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11/12/2009 11:41 PM	Rate (0)
Anchobi Posts: 139 Rating: (25)	You want to know how to control the BR+/- terminals then the easiset thing to do is for you to look in the list manual. Just setting the parameter P1215 is not enough you also need to configure how the brake will operate. From the screenshot you gave I can see that the brake is closed. I expect you are trying to open it? http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/33974002 For you to understand what is happening you will need to look at function diagrams 2701, 2711, and 2814.
Anchobi Posts: 139 Rating: (25)
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11/13/2009 2:35 PM	Rate (0)
picengineer123 Posts: 95 Rating: (0)	Anchobi I am trying to understand the control entirely. I intend to use the terminals BR +/- to control a contactor for a holding brake. As I described, with a chassis size motor module without terminals BR +/- it was easy because you can connect the R899.13 to a digital output on the CUand that output can control a contactor. It works. But for the booksize motor module I thought you can use BR +/-. I cannot find a way to "connect" R899.13 to these terminals. Is the connection internal already? If so I measure the voltage at terminals BR and get no voltage when the motor is running or stopped and P1215=1. I review function diagram 2701 and it doesn't indicate terminals BR+/-. So it is not clear. the drive function manual says: "The trigger command for releasing and applying the holding brake is transmitted via DRIVECLiQ from the Control Unit, which monitors and logically connects the signals to the systeminternal processes, directly to the Motor Module. The Motor Module then performs the action and activates the output for the holding brake. The exact sequence control is shown in the SINAMICS S120/S150 List Manual (function diagram 2701). The operating principle of the holding brake can be configured via parameter p1215." The function itself is set at the motor module in starter even though the manual indicates the CU is controlling the function, which I guess is true for all functions. So the question is still what controls the terminals BR+/-? Is just enabling P1205 the only step? Further, when enable (P1205>0) does the starting of the motor follow the diagrams in the function manual? it indicates the starting of the motor P840{0} on/off results in a opening time, then a ramp up to setpoint and reverse logic for a ramp down and engaging of the brake. This figure (6-8 in the function manual) shows the output for the holding brake is a "1" when the motor runs and then is a 0 when the motor is off. I need to check because when I measure voltage on the termiansl BR+/- the motor is off. It this is true, then this thread is not necessary. regards John
picengineer123 Posts: 95 Rating: (0)	Last edited by: picengineer123 at: 11/13/2009 2:39 PM
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11/13/2009 4:20 PM	Rate (0)
picengineer123 Posts: 95 Rating: (0)	Thanks for your help. I tested the holding brake circuit. I neglected to realize that the output is off when the motor is off. I didn't realize that holding brakes default closed and need to be energized to release. My brake signals are working. thanks again for your help. john
picengineer123 Posts: 95 Rating: (0)
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