S120 Torque Control Block

Hello !!!

 Is there any standard  block available for torque control ? like sina speed or pos 

what kind of telegram i need to choose ? standard or  free telegram ?

what about encoder value if i use torque control with encoder ?

i'm not able to find any simple example program for this

Hello,

if you use a SIMATIC / SIMOTION you can use the axis control block:

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/ww/en/view/48816191

Or if you use the basic positioner you can use the traversing blocks with the functionality "traveling to fixed endstop".

If you use only speed controlled axis, I would use telegram 2 with additional data´s, where I can send the torque limits (and connect the PZD´s to the torque limits). So when the torque limit is detected, the torque limit would be active.

Zako

Hello !!!

thanks for your reply 

for my last post also u said similar reply 

but still I’m confisued 

I'm new to this so I have some questions

Can you tell me If I’m using torque control so I thought I need give torque as setpoint( as per ur last post I used standard telegram 1 in plc side and free telegram in drive side so that I changed p1501 = 1 and connect PZD2 r2050[1] on p1513=r2050[1]) but it’s not working me 

is it right ?

if I’m going to use speed controlled or position controll axis means how can I give torque setpoint ? Here I can give torque limits (limiting torque is a torque control ?)

why we need to use speed control or position control telegrams ?

by using telegram extension only I can do this means .why there is no telegram available for torque control ?

all application example for torque control having speed control with encoder and telegram extension with torque limit .some of having supplementary torque setpoint 

Hello,

Torque is related with speed, even torque at zero speed  is mentioned. So in general drives set point or reference is configured in relation to speed & torque limit is set in percentage. In such case speed is maintained constatnt by increasing torque but within limits. This is how drive + motors are configured.

Another torque related application is constatnt torque where in speed varies but torque maintained constatnt. In such case also speed is evaluated & converted to calaculate torque. This torque is compared with constant torque set point e.g. winder - unwinder application. 

So in drive, depending upon application requirements, appropriate parameters, blocks needs to set.

HTH.

Hello, 

PISCEAN 2010

Hello,

Torque is related with speed, even torque at zero speed  is mentioned. So in general drives set point or reference is configured in relation to speed & torque limit is set in percentage. In such case speed is maintained constatnt by increasing torque but within limits. This is how drive + motors are configured.

Another torque related application is constatnt torque where in speed varies but torque maintained constatnt. In such case also speed is evaluated & converted to calaculate torque. This torque is compared with constant torque set point e.g. winder - unwinder application. 

So in drive, depending upon application requirements, appropriate parameters, blocks needs to set.

HTH.

 Torque is related to speed and constant torque with variable speed these basic concepts are ok and thanks for explanation 

Now for example I’m going to use position control with upper and lower torque limits ...I’m asking axis to go some distance but upper torque reached higher than limit before desination means what will happen ?

axis stops with fault ? It’s poisoning so what will be following error conditions ? Is it possible to do ?

@KB@

Hello, 

PISCEAN 2010

Hello,

HTH.

 Torque is related to speed and constant torque with variable speed these basic concepts are ok and thanks for explanation 

Now for example I’m going to use position control with upper and lower torque limits ...I’m asking axis to go some distance but upper torque reached higher than limit before desination means what will happen ?

axis stops with fault ? It’s poisoning so what will be following error conditions ? Is it possible to do ?

In such case - if the command position is not achieved even axis set upper torque limit is reached, axis follow up error will increase & depeding upon permisiable/calculated time for position achievment or following error value or axis positioning tolerance parameter limit, etc. etc. any one of it, system will display the alarm & stop. Controller immediate action depends on its logic configuured i.e. read in or axes enable will disable or OFF condition will applied.

HTH. 

 Hello !!!!

PISCEAN 2010

In such case - if the command position is not achieved even axis set upper torque limit is reached, axis follow up error will increase & depeding upon permisiable/calculated time for position achievment or following error value or axis positioning tolerance parameter limit, etc. etc. any one of it, system will display the alarm & stop. Controller immediate action depends on its logic configuured i.e. read in or axes enable will disable or OFF condition will applied.

HTH. 

 Yes this what  happening to me ...following error too high 

Is there any possibilities to stop without error 

@KB@

 Hello !!!!

PISCEAN 2010

HTH. 

 Yes this what  happening to me ...following error too high 

Is there any possibilities to stop without error 

I'm trying stop by reading actual torque but it’s very short period the torque value is high even though axis stop with error 

maybe I can increase tollerance values

what else I can do ?

what will happen speed mode with torque limit ?

In above case, please have a look at engineering data base, like load demand - load interia, speed/ torque, accleration, power etc etc. requirements. If the designe calculations are perfect, next is selection of type of controller, motor, feedback device, drive etc. etc. as per application demand. Next is installation & commissioning of above system.

If the above working is perfect, system will work 100% OK. If any one of above slipps or does not meet application demand, then abnormal problems starts occuring. 

So in general, positioning mode, speed mode, torque mode are different & should not get mixed. 

To summaries, could you please provide here complete details of motor, drive, controller, mode etc. etc. & what problem/alarm you faced, so that forum members could help you correctly.

HTH.

Hello!!!

Thanks for your reply!!!!!

I'm not mixing any modes just trying with different modes that'll 

ok as i said in my old posts the application is tightening of parts in torque range 90-140 nm

once i give start  command  to  axis means its should start rotating with high speed but within limit (so tightening process will start) while start of tightening there won't be a big torque but during end of  tightening torque will be high because of tight (so speed get reduced on this time means its better)

another thing i need stop axis at certain angle 

for example i need stop axis at 25 degrees.if tightening completed in any other position means i need find short distance to reach 25 degrees and have to move .i have tolerance range of 90-140nm   so i can move forward or reverse depend on situation.

sorry i don't know how much its understandable.

previously it was working with altivar 31 ,some axis controller and PLC

and its not new machine just replacing other make drives and PLC with siemens make

i have CU320-2PN ,Lenze make induction Motor1.1KW with external encoder and gear box i=16 (previously also its a induction motor ) , CPU1515, PM240-2(6SL3210-1PE18-0UL1-3KW)  and CUA32 

now can anyone tell me which mode i need to use and how ???

sorry for this big story

Hello,

It looks like winder application. You should configure as constatnt torque mode. So when the diameter is less, the speed will be more but torque will be constant. As the diameter goes on increasing, speed will start reducing but again torque will constatnt. To stop at 25 degree, you need to calculate the maximum diameter value & corelate it with 25 degree. So the logic will be max diameter + 25 degree = axis to stop.

Please check the motor capacity you mentioned, previous 3 Kw, present 1.1 Kw. Check previous PLC logic - how it is written, which will help you to understand the application. Please check CPU1515 features for your application requirement. (Since so far I never worked on CPU 1515, I am not familiar with its technical featuers.)

HTH.