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S7-1200 symbolic vs non-symbolic DB vs SCADA

Created by: automat_plc at: 1/18/2013 1:06 PM (11 Replies)

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1/18/2013 1:06 PM	Rate (0)
automat_plc Posts: 6 Rating: (0)	Hello to everybody, please few advices ... I don't have source code of PLC S7-1200 and i can't get it. I have list(.pdf) of DB10(DB_SCADA), which is downloaded in S7-1200, with all, let's say, tags in mentioned DB10, which i have to connect to my InTouch SCADA. Problem is .. mentioned DB10 is created as "only symbolic access" and because of that i can't reach them from InTouch, because InTouch works with "non-symbolic" address onlay, let's say, with absolute address, like also most of SCADAs and OPC servers. e.g S7-1200>DB10.DBD0(real) = InTouch>DB10, REAL0 Is that possible to creat new DB in TIA portal as separate project, as "non-symbolic", whith same address(DB10),name(DB_SCADA) and tags ... and then just this new one DB10(DB_SCADA), which is created as "non-symbolic", dowload-overwrite in S7-1200 with old symbolic DB10 ?? Also, if someone have much better solution to solve this problems ... please, let me know. Any advice is very helpful to me. Thank You very much, best regards.
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1/18/2013 1:21 PM	Rate (0)
Ganes10 Platinum Member Joined: 8/31/2010 Last visit: 1/24/2025 Posts: 1523 Rating: (230)	automat_plc Hello to everybody, please few advices ... I don't have source code of PLC S7-1200 and i can't get it. I have list(.pdf) of DB10(DB_SCADA), which is downloaded in S7-1200, with all, let's say, tags in mentioned DB10, which i have to connect to my InTouch SCADA. Problem is .. mentioned DB10 is created as "only symbolic access" and because of that i can't reach them from InTouch, because InTouch works with "non-symbolic" address onlay, let's say, with absolute address, like also most of SCADAs and OPC servers. e.g S7-1200>DB10.DBD0(real) = InTouch>DB10, REAL0 Is that possible to creat new DB in TIA portal as separate project, as "non-symbolic", whith same address(DB10),name(DB_SCADA) and tags ... and then just this new one DB10(DB_SCADA), which is created as "non-symbolic", dowload-overwrite in S7-1200 with old symbolic DB10 ?? Also, if someone have much better solution to solve this problems ... please, let me know. Any advice is very helpful to me. Thank You very much, best regards. Hello automat_plc, Your problem is genuine, but unfortunately we can't download only one DB in order to replace the running DB in CPU with a new project. Get the project backup (or try your luck by uploading the project from CPU; provided the CPU is not protected), then modify the DB as S7-300/400 compatible DB. If this is not possible you have to go with WinCC v11 for SCADA. may be others can have some more good idea which am also curious to hear.
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1/18/2013 1:26 PM	Rate (0)
hdhosseini Diamond Expert Joined: 1/28/2009 Last visit: 1/19/2025 Posts: 6858 Rating: (1366)	automat_plc Hello to everybody, please few advices ... I don't have source code of PLC S7-1200 and i can't get it. I have list(.pdf) of DB10(DB_SCADA), which is downloaded in S7-1200, with all, let's say, tags in mentioned DB10, which i have to connect to my InTouch SCADA. Problem is .. mentioned DB10 is created as "only symbolic access" and because of that i can't reach them from InTouch, because InTouch works with "non-symbolic" address onlay, let's say, with absolute address, like also most of SCADAs and OPC servers. e.g S7-1200>DB10.DBD0(real) = InTouch>DB10, REAL0 Is that possible to creat new DB in TIA portal as separate project, as "non-symbolic", whith same address(DB10),name(DB_SCADA) and tags ... and then just this new one DB10(DB_SCADA), which is created as "non-symbolic", dowload-overwrite in S7-1200 with old symbolic DB10 ?? Also, if someone have much better solution to solve this problems ... please, let me know. Any advice is very helpful to me. Thank You very much, best regards. Hello, These are possibilities to access absolute addresses in DB10: 1-If access the offline back up easy to find both symbolic and absolute addresses of each cell in a DB. 2-If possible to upload the project from the CPU,It is also possible to match 2 types of addresses. 3-If you have only symbolic addresses, you can re-create (or guess) absolute addresses based on data type on empirical rule in which how editor create cells and assign addresses to them. I hope these points help! Best regards Hamid Hosseini
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1/18/2013 2:25 PM	Rate (0)
automat_plc Posts: 6 Rating: (0)	Ganes10 automat_plc Hello to everybody, please few advices ... I don't have source code of PLC S7-1200 and i can't get it. I have list(.pdf) of DB10(DB_SCADA), which is downloaded in S7-1200, with all, let's say, tags in mentioned DB10, which i have to connect to my InTouch SCADA. Problem is .. mentioned DB10 is created as "only symbolic access" and because of that i can't reach them from InTouch, because InTouch works with "non-symbolic" address onlay, let's say, with absolute address, like also most of SCADAs and OPC servers. e.g S7-1200>DB10.DBD0(real) = InTouch>DB10, REAL0 Is that possible to creat new DB in TIA portal as separate project, as "non-symbolic", whith same address(DB10),name(DB_SCADA) and tags ... and then just this new one DB10(DB_SCADA), which is created as "non-symbolic", dowload-overwrite in S7-1200 with old symbolic DB10 ?? Also, if someone have much better solution to solve this problems ... please, let me know. Any advice is very helpful to me. Thank You very much, best regards. Hello automat_plc, Your problem is genuine, but unfortunately we can't download only one DB in order to replace the running DB in CPU with a new project. Get the project backup (or try your luck by uploading the project from CPU; provided the CPU is not protected), then modify the DB as S7-300/400 compatible DB. If this is not possible you have to go with WinCC v11 for SCADA. may be others can have some more good idea which am also curious to hear. Thanks a lot Ganes10 for Your replay ... Sorry, but how to do backup project?? OK, it's perfectly clear to modify the DB as S7-300/400 compatible DB, but how to do back up project ?? I can't to upload "source code" from S7-1200. i don't know why?? Is "source code" is "locked" or something else, like version of TIA, i have TIA v11 ... ?? I don't know why, but upload can't achieve. Thanks a lot, best regards.
automat_plc Posts: 6 Rating: (0)
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1/18/2013 2:35 PM	Rate (0)
automat_plc Posts: 6 Rating: (0)	hdhosseini automat_plc Hello to everybody, please few advices ... I don't have source code of PLC S7-1200 and i can't get it. I have list(.pdf) of DB10(DB_SCADA), which is downloaded in S7-1200, with all, let's say, tags in mentioned DB10, which i have to connect to my InTouch SCADA. Problem is .. mentioned DB10 is created as "only symbolic access" and because of that i can't reach them from InTouch, because InTouch works with "non-symbolic" address onlay, let's say, with absolute address, like also most of SCADAs and OPC servers. e.g S7-1200>DB10.DBD0(real) = InTouch>DB10, REAL0 Is that possible to creat new DB in TIA portal as separate project, as "non-symbolic", whith same address(DB10),name(DB_SCADA) and tags ... and then just this new one DB10(DB_SCADA), which is created as "non-symbolic", dowload-overwrite in S7-1200 with old symbolic DB10 ?? Also, if someone have much better solution to solve this problems ... please, let me know. Any advice is very helpful to me. Thank You very much, best regards. Hello, These are possibilities to access absolute addresses in DB10: 1-If access the offline back up easy to find both symbolic and absolute addresses of each cell in a DB. 2-If possible to upload the project from the CPU,It is also possible to match 2 types of addresses. 3-If you have only symbolic addresses, you can re-create (or guess) absolute addresses based on data type on empirical rule in which how editor create cells and assign addresses to them. I hope these points help! Best regards Hamid Hosseini Dear hdhosseini, this is not a first time that You helping me. Thanks a lot... Please look to my previus post to Ganes10. According to Your post: In my .pdf list i don't have address(offset) in DB, just symbols. So, as You wrote i re-created("guess") absolute addresses and that is OK. But as DB was creat like "only symbolic", regardless of those "guess" absolute address, which are correct, i can't reach them from SCADA, because in S7-1200 thay are still only symbolic. I know that i have to change DB in S7-1200,for sure, but how to do that?? Thanks a lot, best regards ...
automat_plc Posts: 6 Rating: (0)
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1/18/2013 3:21 PM	Rate (0)
0_Einstein Diamond Expert Joined: 7/7/2010 Last visit: 1/24/2025 Posts: 15558 Rating: (2468)	It is possible to recreate the plc project provided it has not been protected, or if it has been protected and you have the password, you can recreate it. Does the vendor have the project and can email to you?
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1/18/2013 3:37 PM	Rate (0)
hdhosseini Diamond Expert Joined: 1/28/2009 Last visit: 1/19/2025 Posts: 6858 Rating: (1366)	Hello again, In my .pdf list i don't have address(offset) in DB, just symbols. So, as You wrote i re-created("guess") absolute addresses and that is OK. But as DB was creat like "only symbolic", regardless of those "guess" absolute address, which are correct, i can't reach them from SCADA, because in S7-1200 thay are still only symbolic. I know that i have to change DB in S7-1200,for sure, but how to do that?? I think DB can be re-created if symbols with names and data types (Bool,Byte and real) provided with correct order as they appear in the original DB.If I were you,I might have tried that and even compare guessed addressed with actual values .I know it is unlikely and may not lead to a result. Best regards Hamid Hosseini
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1/18/2013 3:47 PM	Rate (0)
0_Einstein Diamond Expert Joined: 7/7/2010 Last visit: 1/24/2025 Posts: 15558 Rating: (2468)	hdhosseini Hello again, In my .pdf list i don't have address(offset) in DB, just symbols. So, as You wrote i re-created("guess") absolute addresses and that is OK. But as DB was creat like "only symbolic", regardless of those "guess" absolute address, which are correct, i can't reach them from SCADA, because in S7-1200 thay are still only symbolic. I know that i have to change DB in S7-1200,for sure, but how to do that?? I think DB can be re-created if symbols with names and data types (Bool,Byte and real) provided with correct order as they appear in the original DB.If I were you,I might have tried that and even compare guessed addressed with actual values .I know it is unlikely and may not lead to a result. Best regards Hamid Hosseini Hamid, The S7-1200 will not respond to requests from remote devices for symbolic addressed DBs regardless of how well we guess their internal structure. It simply refuses the request. It does not try to give you what you want, or even what the plc may 'think' you want. It just refuses. automat_plc, That said, there should be a way to get the symbolic tags from a named db (rather than by number) provided they were created with the 'visible' flag checked. For example, the hmi can read/write symbolic tags if they are set as visible. The web server (if so configured and enabled), can access db_by_name.tag_by_name. So, with the name of the db and name of the tag, the scada system may not be able to access the data, but anhmi project might. If the internal web server is enabled, you can craft a web scraper to read the value periodically and pass it to your scada system.
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1/18/2013 4:11 PM	Rate (0)
automat_plc Posts: 6 Rating: (0)	Very interesting ... thanks!! I'll think about this opportunity. Best regards ...
automat_plc Posts: 6 Rating: (0)
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1/18/2013 4:18 PM	Rate (0)
hdhosseini Diamond Expert Joined: 1/28/2009 Last visit: 1/19/2025 Posts: 6858 Rating: (1366)	Hamid, The S7-1200 will not respond to requests from remote devices for symbolic addressed DBs regardless of how well we guess their internal structure. It simply refuses the request. It does not try to give you what you want, or even what the plc may 'think' you want. It just refuses. Dear huggy_d1, While speaking about reconstructing a DB with absolute addresses based on the symbolic names and their orders, I do not think CPU refuses a valid absolute addresses inside a existing DB.The possible problems may be non existing cells or wrong guessing addresses corresponds to given symbol. It is a possible way but I rephrase it again ,It may not lead to a perfect result. Many regards from Hamid Hosseini
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