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S7 300 SOFTWARE REDUNDANCY PROBLEM???

Created by: sundar at: 10/3/2009 6:29 PM (16 Replies)

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10/3/2009 6:29 PM	Rate (0)
sundar Posts: 100 Rating: (2)	Hi to all. I am new for redundancy processor. now i do one s7300 software modification work. the previous program have some protected block. so i couldn't open that block. This system have cpu313-2dp plc and IM153 and op7. I download same program in both cpu.OP7 is user for adjust the timer value. if i switch on the panel second cpu acting. The program sequence running successfully. if i switch to stop mode in that 2nd cpu first cpu acting there is no interruption in program sequence. Atthat time if i swichon 2nd Cpu means its comes to run mode. after that i switch off the first cpu the whole sequence is stopped. the 2nd cpu not take over that sequence. but the 2nd im153 module act signal is coming. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If i switch on the cpu2 (cpu1 is off)and set the timer value 5 minutes from OP7. the timer value updated in plc.now i swich off 2nd cpu and switch on first cpu the same timer value is not showing 5 minutes. ie.The timer value is not updated both cpu from OP7.But i can set timer value to both cpu from op7(if i set time value means its updated only acting cpu not in rest cpu) can i see(notmodify) the protected block. why because all the i/o mapping is inside the protected block. i couldn't contact the programmer.(who one the starting the program) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I attached the program copy PLC&IO arrangement and hardware configuration below. pls help me where i did mistake. Attachment S7-300_S.zip (418 Downloads)
sundar Posts: 100 Rating: (2)
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10/3/2009 6:34 PM	Rate (0)
sundar Posts: 100 Rating: (2)	Hi to all. I upload the Hardware configuration and plc IO arrangement below.Because i couldn't upload both at same attachment. Anybody help me to achieve redundancy. if any mistake in my hardware config means pls correct me. Attachment CONFIG ARRANGEMENT.zip (391 Downloads)
sundar Posts: 100 Rating: (2)
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10/4/2009 4:48 PM	Rate (0)
sundar Posts: 100 Rating: (2)	Hi to all. Now i have little bit idea about redundancy after go through the siemens software redundancy manual. But still i have a doubt in redundancy program. My hardware config is CPU313-2DP -2 nos ET200M -2 nos Digital I/P 32 x DC24V -3 nos Digital O/P 32 x DC24V -2 nos Digital O/P 16 x DC24V -1 no. OP7 -1 no. Program have the following blocks ORGANISATION BLOCK: OB1, OB86,OB100,OB121 FUNCTION BLOCK : FB101, FB103 FUNCTION : FC1,FC2,FC5,FC11,FC12,FC15,FC20,FC1,FC100,FC102 DATABLOCK : DB5, DB15,DB16,DB20 to DB46. and SFB's. In redundncy manual FC100 BLOCK have DB1,DB2,DB3 but the following program don't have that block. I need OB1,OB86,OB100,OB121 and FB101,FB103,FC100,FC102 BLOCK VALUES FOR MY CONFIGURATION I attached the PLC I/O arragement photo , myhardware config and progam copy below.this program i am not checked with PLC.Tomorrow only i will check. I don't know whether it willbe working or not. If any modification in this program pls correct me. Attachment S7SWR.zip (384 Downloads)
sundar Posts: 100 Rating: (2)
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10/4/2009 9:12 PM	Rate (0)
H-H Platinum Member Joined: 7/2/2008 Last visit: 8/26/2024 Posts: 928 Rating: (308)	Hello Sundar, I think you need to investigate your software redundancy system by doing some small tests. You should always monitor the status word in each CPU at each switching activity(Switch A to B & B to A). So, you will know if software redundancy works or not at all cases. In your case the status word will be DB5.DBW8. You can find detailed structure of this word in software redundancy manual. It's little strange to me that you have OP7 because OP7 doesn't have a function called change control or change connection so it seems to me that OP7 has a screen for CPUA and a screen for CPU B and you switch between these screens manually. Is it so?! You should also check data transfer time between the 2 CPUs. Change timer value in OP7 (That's talking to CPU B for example) and checkhow much time does this value take to get updated (Transferred)in CPU A. Note that data can't be transferred if any of the CPU is in stop. So, you should always make sure that both CPUs are in run for awhile before you make such switching. sundar can i see(notmodify) the protected block. why because all the i/o mapping is inside the protected block. i couldn't contact the programmer.(who one the starting the program) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I attached the program copy PLC&IO arrangement and hardware configuration below. pls help me where i did mistake. You can't monitor the protected blocks. you should ask the original programmer for source files to unprotect such blocks. However, I can't see the blocks you are talking about in your project(FC2,5,12&15). Just make sure you have them before doing anything to what's already downloaded. sundar In redundncy manual FC100 BLOCK have DB1,DB2,DB3 but the following program don't have that block. DB1,DB2 & DB3 are automatically created during startup of PLC by SFC22. You can't find them in the off-line project and you should never create them yourself. Best regards. H-H
	Last edited by: H-H at: 10/4/2009 9:18 PM Still having problems with quoting :(
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10/5/2009 5:15 PM	Rate (0)
sundar Posts: 100 Rating: (2)	Thanks H-H, Today i check. if i cange timer value from OP7 means it update only in master cpu. Not in reserve cpu in both cases(resreve cpu IM - act or Master cpu IM-act). In OP7 i change 1 timer value (both cpu) from one place only. the program have 2 section. the both section have same sequence. In OP7 also like this. Example: System-A watering cycle DB15.DBD40 System-B watering cycle DB16.DBD40. Is it any possible to change the both cpu timer value from OP7 without switching.
sundar Posts: 100 Rating: (2)
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10/7/2009 11:45 PM	Rate (0)
H-H Platinum Member Joined: 7/2/2008 Last visit: 8/26/2024 Posts: 928 Rating: (308)	Hello Sundar, I must admit I couldn't figure out the point of having 2data blocksone for A and the other for B. The programmer must have a point that I just can't get. sundar Today i check. if i cange timer value from OP7 means it update only in master cpu. Not in reserve cpu in both cases(resreve cpu IM - act or Master cpu IM-act). As I can see, you have 2 data blocks, DB15 for A and DB16 for B. If you change value in DB15.DBW16, then both DB15.DBW16 in both CPU's should have the same value. (If they don't then you should investigate status word) Are you sure you checked the same register in reserve CPU or you were changing data inDB 15 and waiting for changes in DB16 which can't happen unless the programmer had written some code (You didn't upload the whole project)to copy DB15 toDB16 if A is master and DB16 to DB 15 if B is master. By hook or crook this not what it supposed to be in software redundancy. You should always have identical redundant program that access the same data blocks and markers regardless of which CPU is MASTER. For example, if CPU A is masterand OP7 should access DB100.DBD10then CPU Awill synchronize the value of DB100.DBD10 with CPU B and once CPU A fails, CPU B will have the right value in DB100.DBD10 and OP7must communicate with CPU B in this case. sundar Example: System-A watering cycle DB15.DBD40 System-B watering cycle DB16.DBD40. Is it any possible to change the both cpu timer value from OP7 without switching. Yes, it's possible for sure if you have, System-A watering cycle DB15.DBD40 System-B watering cycle DB15.DBD40. Maybe you will have to change some parts in program butimho this is the bet solution. There might be some other ways that will look quite ridiculous to do like, changing OB100-FC100 parameters: 1- Change DB_NO from 15 to any other number of new data blocks. 2- Change DB_A_B_NO to 15 3- Change DB_A_B_NO_LEN to the right length of data block 4- Change DB_B_A_NO to 16 5- Change DB_B_A_NO_LEN to the same length. BUT I still don't recommend such solution at all. Best regards. H-H

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10/8/2009 5:13 PM	Rate (0)
sundar Posts: 100 Rating: (2)	Thanks H-H. Sorry my previous information have some mistakes. The cpu have 2 different section. Both section have same sequence. 1st section:(FC1,FC2,FC5& DB15) The first section timer value is in db15. 2nd section:(FC11,FC12,FC15& DB16) The second section timer value is in db16. Example: DB15.DBD40 1st section watering timer. DB16.DBD40 2nd section watering timer. In CPU2 also have a same program. But i cann't change both cpu time from op7 from same I/O field. In op7 they have only one choosable specility(PLC1 or PLC2). I cann't choose both plc in same I/O field. Example: If i want to change 1st cpu 1st section watering timer means i create one I/O field in OP7. and i give address DB15.DBD.40 and PLC name: PLC1 If i want to change 2nd cpu 1st section watering timer means i create another one I/O field in OP7. and i give address DB15.DBD.40 and PLC name: PLC2. CAN I CHANGE TIMER VALUE IN BOTH CPU FROM OP7 USING ONE I/O FIELD??? FROM UR PREVIOUS ANSWER ITS NOT POSSIBLE BECAUSE OP7 DOESN'T HAVE FUNCTION CALLED SPECILITY. IS ANY OTHER WAY TO CHANGE BOTHCPU TIMER VALUE FROM SAME I/O FIELD. The redundancy is not working i get the full program copy from who did the program previously. I attached the full program copy below. i have a doubt on OB block for redundancy problem . If any mistake in program means pls correct me. Example: LADDR:(OB100)logical base address (256) why this value is 256. where this value appear in hardware configurtion. Attachment TCS_BACK.zip (366 Downloads)
sundar Posts: 100 Rating: (2)
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10/9/2009 4:28 AM	Rate (0)
how come Posts: 382 Rating: (47)	sundar The redundancy is not working i get the full program copy from who did the program previously. Dear sundar, I have look through your netpro setup, I doubt this will work. 1] Please see my attach for the netpro setup. 2] For your tocuh panel, I suggest you use repeater. 3] There are a few settings you need to change in your OB100 [see my attach] Station AAG_KENNUNG should fill in as "A" and like wise for "B" Slave address put to 3 if according to screenshotnetpro setup 4] I have also attach the SWR manual for you to read. sundar Example: LADDR:(OB100)logical base address (256) why this value is 256. where this value appear in hardware configurtion. LADDER is default at 256, this is the base address for CP card. For example if you use CP342 with your redundant PLCs, then you need to specify the CP342 address in LADDER. Usually we leave it as default if no CP card being used in the SWR configuration setup. For your other problems, really need time to lookinto your program/setup. I suggest you get your hardware redundant setup work first [able to switch between station and IM153-2].Then step by step we solve the program problem one by one at a time. Hope all these able to help you! with regards, how come? Oops,Your new attach program for OB100 setup for AG_KENNUNG is now correct. Attachment To sundar.zip (355 Downloads)
how come Posts: 382 Rating: (47)	Last edited by: how come? at: 10/9/2009 4:48 AM Last edited by: how come? at: 10/9/2009 4:34 AM
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10/11/2009 1:30 AM	Rate (0)
H-H Platinum Member Joined: 7/2/2008 Last visit: 8/26/2024 Posts: 928 Rating: (308)	Hello Sundar, Hello howcome?, sundar CAN I CHANGE TIMER VALUE IN BOTH CPU FROM OP7 USING ONE I/O FIELD??? FROM UR PREVIOUS ANSWER ITS NOT POSSIBLE BECAUSE OP7 DOESN'T HAVE FUNCTION CALLED SPECILITY. IS ANY OTHER WAY TO CHANGE BOTHCPU TIMER VALUE FROM SAME I/O FIELD. The only way to do it is to use function called Change control/Change connection which is not loaded in OP7. sundar IS ANY OTHER WAY TO CHANGE BOTHCPU TIMER VALUE FROM SAME I/O FIELD. You have to get used with software redundancy concepts. You are not supposed to change timer values in both CPUs from a single OP from at a time. OP7 should always communicate withmaster PLC and this PLC copies its data to the reserve PLC. The optimum solution is to make 2 typical screens one with I/O fields for PLC A and the other screen will have I/O fields for PLC B. If your software redundancy is working then when you switch between the 2 screens you will find the same values. When master PLC fails you will have to switch between the 2 screens manually. But youshould first solve redundancy problem as how come? pointed to. sundar I attached the full program copy below. i have a doubt on OB block for redundancy problem . If any mistake in program means pls correct me. MPI_ADR parameter is the MPI address of communication peer so it should becorrected from 2 to 4 in STATION A and from 4 to 2 in STATION B. I see no problems in the other parameters. sundar Example: LADDR:(OB100)logical base address (256) why this value is 256. where this value appear in hardware configurtion. Look at how come?'s explanation. (in a word, there's no use of it in your case) You should always observe return values of software redundancy blocks to trace the reason why software redundancy is not working. how come? I have look through your netpro setup, I doubt this will work. 1] Please see my attach for the netpro setup. 2] For your tocuh panel, I suggest you use repeater. 3] There are a few settings you need to change in your OB100 [see my attach] Station AAG_KENNUNG should fill in as "A" and like wise for "B" Slave address put to 3 if according to screenshotnetpro setup 4] I have also attach the SWR manual for you to read. The netpro setup is correct and there's no need to use repeaters. Repeaters will work but there's no need at all for switched repeaters. I mean even in H-System you can go doing it over MPI without switched repeaters. You can take a look at How can you connect an operator panel directly to an H system without using repeaters? The same technique can be used for software redundancy even if MPI is used for redundant link. Then slave address in Sundar's configuration can stay 2. Best regards. H-H

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10/12/2009 3:54 AM	Rate (0)
how come Posts: 382 Rating: (47)	H-H The netpro setup is correct and there's no need to use repeaters. Repeaters will work but there's no need at all for switched repeaters. I mean even in H-System you can go doing it over MPI without switched repeaters. You can take a look at How can you connect an operator panel directly to an H system without using repeaters? The same technique can be used for software redundancy even if MPI is used for redundant link. Then slave address in Sundar's configuration can stay 2. H-H Hello Sundar, Hello H-H, Nice explaination and I agreed with you!The repeater is not necessary or a must. Just to share the reason why I suggest another option for Sundar using repeater is because of the slow transmission speed that the MPI can set to in SWR - 187.5kBaud [see the page from SWR manual]. As the 2 stations are using MPI link to perform redanduncy thus it also depends on the program and data to exchange between the 2 stations restrict under the buad rate of 187.5K. For Sundar case, if operator panel doesn't need to poll large amout of data. Having connect together under the same MPI network I think shouldn't be any problem to cause anyslow response. As for repeater is under profibus network and it can go up to max 12MBuad. That will actually faster reponse. Of course the design of the system [distance of netwrok, type of CPU use] also need to be taken into consideration and we also mustn't forget the $$cost of having repeatertoo.That will depends on the feasibility of the project. with regards, how come?
how come Posts: 382 Rating: (47)	Last edited by: how come? at: 10/12/2009 3:56 AM
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