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S7-300R with DP/PA links

Created by: sameer248 at: 6/22/2009 6:55 PM (11 Replies)

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6/22/2009 6:55 PM	Rate (0)
sameer248 Posts: 15 Rating: (0)	Dear Friends, I have gone through lot of FAQs and manuals but i have not gota clear YES/NO from any one hence putting this thread. Please check the attached configuration and let me know if it will work or not. Basically i m trying to connect a few PA instruments (PTs) to software redundant 300R system (315-2DP). Every body knows that 6ES7-153-2BA02works with ET200M in software redundancy butcan itbe used for DP/PA link as well with software redundancy! Thanks and regards, Attachment DPPA_300R.pdf (350 Downloads)
sameer248 Posts: 15 Rating: (0)
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6/23/2009 6:53 AM	Rate (0)
fritz Diamond Expert Joined: 10/7/2005 Last visit: 6/5/2023 Posts: 2966 Rating: (1025)	Hello sameer248 interesting proposition that you have come up with. I can't see any problems with your configuration and say it will not onlyhave to work butis(should be) also an officially supported design. As you already know, S7-300 software redundancy supports (requires) two IM153-2 per ET200M station (and don't forget the active backplane modules). This setup is also no different to what is called "single channel, switched ET20M I/O's" inan S7-400H system. Moving on to using the a pair of IM153-2 asa (redundant) DP/PA link: Note firstly thatthe (redundant) Profibus DP side is the same as above. Note secondly that the IM153-2 creates a 45.45 kbps profibus DP segment on the "backplane" to which you can connect up to 5 PA couplers. Note thirdly that the PLC HWconfig does not concern itself with how many PA couplers exists, nor does it "care" if you use coupler redundacy via AFD's or AFS. Note fourthly that the PA ring redundancy is handled on a hardware level viathe AFD's or AFS (there is nothing to configure). Conclusion,your design is ok and will work (and I am confident that Siemens will one day ammend the manuals to showS7-400H's as well as a Software redudant S7-300's in their example pictures). I hope this helps Cheers Fritz
	Cheers fritz The advice and opinion given in this thread is that of the author and does not necessarily reflect the views of I S Systems Pty Limited. To find out how I S Systems can help you with your automation needs please visit www.issystems.com.au.
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6/23/2009 9:06 PM	Rate (0)
H-H Platinum Member Joined: 7/2/2008 Last visit: 3/14/2023 Posts: 928 Rating: (303)	Hello Fritz, I've been searching for a while. The software redundancyhardware listhasn't been updated since the year 2003. Only ET200M can be used for software redundancy. Onlysignal modules, FM350 and CP341 are listed under usable module for ET200M. Now I claim that these statements are little old and should have been changed since ET200 iSP can work with software redundancy (according to ET200iSP manual). MaybeDP/PA couplers can work although they are not listed. The point is that I also checked the DP/PALink manualand this statement is still there, DP/PA Link By using two IM 153-2 interface modules, the entire underlying PROFIBUS PA master system can be connected to a redundant DP master system of an S7-400H as switched peripherals. For this purpose installation is always executed with bus modules. Now, the software redundancy is not mentioned here! I agree with you that it should work but I think Mr.Sameer might not get good support for such configuration. Now, I have one more question if you don't mind. Don't you agree with me that Y-Link will also work with SWR since it's also based on 2 IM153-2? Best regards. H-H

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6/24/2009 2:27 AM	Rate (0)
fritz Diamond Expert Joined: 10/7/2005 Last visit: 6/5/2023 Posts: 2966 Rating: (1025)	Hello H-H I concur with everything you stated and believe that this is exactlythe "problem" that sameer248 has(i.e. there is no offical statement in the (ancient) SWR manuals nor any deliberate refercence to SWR usage case in the manusl that haveH systems listed as usage cases forY-Link and/or PA ring redundancy). Since SWR and H systems arehowever really no different from each other when it comes to handling a redundant IM153-2 pair, everything connected "downstream" of the redundant IM153-2 pair (e.g. Y-Link, PA Ring with two couplers etc.) must work with bith and shouldbe supported by Siemens (and ideally manuals should list them both). In other words, just because Siemens has "neglected" to update the SWR manuals and has a tendency to "ignore" SWR and only lists H systems in the product manuals for the redundant usage cases of IM153-2's does not mean that it is NOT offically suported by Siemens. Lastely, I may of course stand corrected on my assertions andsameer would be well advised to send an official enquiryto Siemens service and support to seek clarfication (and escalate it to the product mangers should they be unable to give a clear answer which is what I fear will happen). Cheers Fritz
	Cheers fritz The advice and opinion given in this thread is that of the author and does not necessarily reflect the views of I S Systems Pty Limited. To find out how I S Systems can help you with your automation needs please visit www.issystems.com.au.
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6/30/2009 10:52 AM	Rate (0)
sameer248 Posts: 15 Rating: (0)	I have got a confirmation from A&D that this will not work error free and is not supported by AG!!! I am attaching the text here! Subject: RE: Service-Request= 1-1093693242; DP/PA Couplers (A&D-02524) Dear Sir, we have tested Software redundancy together with Y-Link and DP/PA coupler. The results are not good. An error free work was usually not possible. That is why I said "Software redundancy has no release for useing Y-Link and DP/PA coupler". You can try in your case, how to work the system. But Siemens AG cannot guarantee an error free work.
sameer248 Posts: 15 Rating: (0)
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6/30/2009 11:29 AM	Rate (0)
fritz Diamond Expert Joined: 10/7/2005 Last visit: 6/5/2023 Posts: 2966 Rating: (1025)	Thnaks sameer248, so much for my statement "Y-Link, PA Ring with two couplers etc. must work with SWRand shouldbe supported by Siemens .." Anyway, I'm glad you checked this with the "authorities", but my question is: Did Siemens give you a technical explanation as to the nature of why "The results are not good. An error free work was usually not possible"? (If so please post it as I would really like to know).
	Cheers fritz The advice and opinion given in this thread is that of the author and does not necessarily reflect the views of I S Systems Pty Limited. To find out how I S Systems can help you with your automation needs please visit www.issystems.com.au.
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6/30/2009 1:49 PM	Rate (0)
sameer248 Posts: 15 Rating: (0)	Hey fritz! No additional info given by A&D. Do not want to follow this issue any further with A&D. Cheers!
sameer248 Posts: 15 Rating: (0)
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7/21/2009 8:42 AM	Rate (0)
how come Posts: 382 Rating: (47)	Dear all, Just to share what I encountered before so that in future someone don't follow my mistake. I ever used SWR before using CPU317-2DP, at first I also had the same thinking as fritz and I usedY-link tocommunicate withA2000 devices and TPs.But fail.Later I use Repeaters and the communication establish well with no problem in pulling datas. I regret didn't check with my local siemens support earlier because of my "logical" assumption that Y-link will work under SWR or seen this thread earlier. Now I got 1 extra Y-link with me. In conclusion, its better to check to playsafe. with regards, how come?
how come Posts: 382 Rating: (47)	Last edited by: how come? at: 7/21/2009 8:47 AM
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7/22/2009 8:50 AM	Rate (0)
H-H Platinum Member Joined: 7/2/2008 Last visit: 3/14/2023 Posts: 928 Rating: (303)	Hello How come?, Thank you for sharing information and experience. I'm more curious to know which Y-Link you tried, the one based on IM153-2 or the one based on IM 157 (Don't think I'll buy it). Would you pleasetell us what kind of problems you had with Y-Link configured under SWR? I know this may never change the fact that it doesn't work but it's just passion of knowledge. I was intending to test it when I have enough hardware but since you have tried it, I will be satisfied with results. Best regards. H-H

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7/23/2009 5:04 AM	Rate (0)
how come Posts: 382 Rating: (47)	Dear H-H, The Y-link I tried is based on IM153-2. The Part No is 6ES7 197 1LB00 0XA0, SIMATIC S7, Y-COUPLER FOR BUILDING UP A Y-LINK FOR REDUNDANT CONTROLLER. I had two 317-2DP CPU [Station A & B] and every set of remote I/Os with two 6ES7 153-2BA02 0XB0 for redundant purpose [one for Station A and one for B]. I also had two 6ES7 153-2BA02 0XB0 connected together with Y-link and the Y-link is connected to A2000 and touchscreen. I was unable to establish any com. with the TS and not getting any values from the A2000 Units. Sorry that I couldn't remember what exactlythe error fault messages. I tried to remove all my remote I/O configuration in the hardware config and left with only the Y-link com. with the A2000 and TS then download to the CPUs. Still couldn't get it work. I thought it could be my program logic gave me the poblem. Thus i deleted all my program and left with thelogics and DBsthat com. with the TS. Still couldn't get it works. I tried to put back all my remote I/O config but without the Y-link and the system works fine without any errors. As i was running out of time and so consult local siemens support and they told me to use repeaters instead of Y-link. So I bought and tried. Everything works now. Infact I was not quite satisfied as the SWR manual and 400H manual didn't mention clearly that Y-link works for 400H but not for SWR.I have to keep this baby with metill next project that need it. Anyway it's a good experience for me! Another thing i would like to share is the setup for two 6ES7 153-2BA02 0XB0 + Y-link although don't work in SWRbut do works for 400H system [a commissioning panel which i saw onsite with such setup]. with regards, how come?
how come Posts: 382 Rating: (47)	Last edited by: how come? at: 7/23/2009 5:07 AM
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