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S7 414-4H with Y-link

Created by: lizard at: 9/5/2007 7:39 AM (13 Replies)

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9/5/2007 7:39 AM	Rate (0)
lizard Posts: 2 Rating: (0)	Hi, Im here trying to connect the Y-link with more than 244bytes IOin aredundant automation systems by using S7 414-4H. Found from the forum mentions that Y-link is limited to 244bytes because of the profibus' telegram. In that situation i need more Y-link, my problem is since that profibus' limitation is there, does it mean that if the no. of y-link i use is equal to the no. of the profibus? Another question is if i need more than 1 profibus for the system, when it link to a S7 414-4H,is thatmean i have to use the same amount as the profibus for the IM 443-5 ext?
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9/5/2007 7:51 AM	Rate (0)
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)	That's true, you can't use more than 244 bytes of input and 244 bytes of output info through 1 Y-link. I can't really understand why (have insufficient imagination to understand how that's connected to profibus telegramm length). So if you have 3 networks (Fox ex. (1)20 bytes of inputs,(2)200 bytes of inputs and (3)400 bytes of inputs) you will need 4 Y-links (onefor(1)and(2)andtwofor(3)).
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)	Last edited by: Aret at: 05.09.2007 07:52 Last edited by: Aret at: 05.09.2007 07:52
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9/5/2007 7:59 AM	Rate (0)
Dorftrottel? Silver Member Joined: 8/10/2006 Last visit: 8/13/2024 Posts: 298 Rating: (29)	Aret, I've never bothered to look this up, but can all 4 Y-Links be connected to the same set of IM157's, or are you limited to one Y-Link per pair of IM157's ? TIA, Jim

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9/5/2007 8:13 AM	Rate (0)
lizard Posts: 2 Rating: (0)	Aret, So, does it mean that for each Y-link network, ithas to connect to the different CP443-5 ext on the CPU site?
lizard Posts: 2 Rating: (0)
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9/5/2007 10:47 AM	Rate (0)
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)	lizard, not 100% sure, but think you need 1 DP port foreachprofibusnetwork. UnimogMan, Y-link require active bus. Again not 100% sure, but i think it's impossible to make "X-link" - i mean Y-link with more than 1 profibus network going to IO stations.
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)
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9/5/2007 6:02 PM	Rate (1)
Dorftrottel? Silver Member Joined: 8/10/2006 Last visit: 8/13/2024 Posts: 298 Rating: (29)	Lizard, Aret, I know from experience that you do not need to have the 443-5 to have Y-Links. I have 20 on an H system, all connected to the DP ports on the front of the 417H pair. I have one Y-Link per IM157 pair. I asked about multiple Y-Links for options on other redundant systems where I didn't need such redundancy -- in my system, the machines connected downstream of the Y-Link are mission critical. If one pair of IM157's went down and took with it multiple Y-Links, the results could be a financial disaster (i.e. ~$10⁷ in lost product.) Every step was taken to minimize risk.

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9/6/2007 7:49 AM	Rate (0)
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)	UnimogMan, great to talk with people having exact expirience:^) Feels like i didn't catch everything correctly - so a couple of questions:) Supose you have H system, to DP1 port of PLC 1 connected Profibus (101),toDP1portofPLC2Profibus(102)isconnected. Thenyouhave10IM153connectedtoProfibus(101)and10toProfibus(102). Soyouhave10IM157fortheentiresystem,ConnectedtoProfibus(1),Profibus(2), ..., Profibus(10). The question is - what happends if i have 2 nodes with same address - one in Profibus(1) and one in Profibus(5)? Same question is about IO. Or it's prohibited to insert such DP-node/IO in HW Konfig? PS. Can you upload HW-config (without code) of such system here or e-mail it by me? If that's ok with your company of course.
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)
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9/6/2007 3:34 PM	Rate (2)
Dorftrottel? Silver Member Joined: 8/10/2006 Last visit: 8/13/2024 Posts: 298 Rating: (29)	Hi Aret, Sadly, I cannot share anything from the project other that the knowledge I've learned from it. I also cannot take credit for it -- many superb engineers worked on it before me. I forgot to mention in my earlier post, with the older version of the Y-Link, you could connect via the DP port if you used the IM157 (IIRC, it does not provide diagnostics at the level of the IM153-2, if at all). If you wanted to use the IM153-2, you needed the CP443-5. But I believe that has changed with the new Y-Link -- you can use redundant IM153-2 off the PLC DP ports. I have a pair in a system I'm testing (no part numbers available right now -- sorry) and the IM153-2's control a single Y-Link, all off the DP Port. I am unable to check the HW Config for that project from here - it is a 7.0 system and this laptop is running 6.1. I tried on this laptop, but I am unable to install a Y-Link without a IM157. I will verify later with 7.0 and write back. In response to your question, in my hardware config, 101 and 102 each connect to all the IM157s with a single Y-Link attached to each pair of IM157s. Each pair of IM157s has a unique DP address on bus 101,2, and the Profibus network downstream of the bus must be given a unique name. You can merge the subnets (see comment below on merged subnets) The modules you drop onto the newly created non-redundant DP network take the address you give them. On the system I work on, every machine connected to the Y-Link is address 3 and the information passed is 80 bytes in, which are automatically mapped as AI in the S7-417Hs (but you can change the input address to your liking). Merged Subnets I believe the limitation of the Y-Link is 244bytes. It's an interesting thought, but if you need more to connect to a single machine, use two Y-Links (or more), merge the subnets, and create separate GSD files for the different groups of memory -- for example, Y-Link_A has a GSD that talks to a machine of type X, DP Address 3, memory bytes 0-243. Y-Link_B has a GSD that talks to a machine of type X, also DP address 3, memory bytes 244-487, etc. I wonder if it can be done? I'll check on the IM157 vs IM153-2 at the plant later this morning, and write back. Jim
	Last edited by: UnimogMan at: 06.09.2007 15:36
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9/7/2007 2:10 AM	Rate (0)
Dorftrottel? Silver Member Joined: 8/10/2006 Last visit: 8/13/2024 Posts: 298 Rating: (29)	Short synopsis of what I found today: IM153-2 can be the Redundant DP-Non Redundant DP master. I can set it up on my V7 system. I'm sure the hardware drivers can be loaded for v6.1 too. The configuration would be: IM153-2BA01-0XB0 This is the IM153-2 HF Needs the following: 6ES7195-7HD80-0XA0 (Active bus backplane for IM modules) 6ES7654-7HY00-0XA0 (slot 3..n bus module) 6ES7195-1GA00-0XA0 (Y-Link module) You can only have one Y-Link per set of redundant couplers (whether IM153-2 or IM157) Additional links are the following: http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/11703713 http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/14596645

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9/9/2007 3:44 PM	Rate (0)
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)	Thx for info, i'll try to understand a lot of new info^)
Aret Posts: 2348 Rating: (264)
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