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SIEMENS SITRANS F M MAG 5000 HART Communication Error

Created by: Andrey1551 at: 11/21/2014 7:38 AM (4 Replies)

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11/21/2014 7:38 AM	Rate (0)
Andrey1551 Posts: 2 Rating: (0)	Hello, We have a problem with SIEMENS SITRANS F M MAG 5000 (transmitter) + 5100W (sensor). HART communication of MAG 5000 is constantly interrupted with DCS Yokogawa Centum CS 3000 (screenshot in the archive). MAG 5000 is connected to analog module (AAI135H), which supports HART protocol. All connections was done according to Siemens manual, which also was enclosed in archive (plus, foto of connection). All data is transmitted by analog signal and HART, but HART connection constantly interrupted. Because of that operator alarm list is always overflowing. We have 8 the same devises. All of them have the same problem. Link to the archive:https://www.dropbox.com/s/a3xaobg64qwm0to/Siemens.rar?dl=0 Please help me with this problem.
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11/23/2014 8:24 PM	Rate (0)
danw Gold Expert Joined: 3/28/2010 Last visit: 12/6/2024 Posts: 1095 Rating: (215)	The wiring for HART looks correct. Presumably the DCS analog inputs use 250 ohm input resistors to meet the minimum HART requirement. Questions: 1) Does the DCS get any valid HART data from any Mag 5000? 2) How many of the eight installed Mag 5000's provides valid data? 1? 2? all 8? 3) What data is the DCS is requesting from the Mag 5000? Primary and Secondary values? 4) The Mag 5000 has a menu for HART, which includes a HART short address. I know the HART short address is normally 0 for point to point communications, like with a handheld communicator or a HART modem with PACTWARE software. The short address is > 0 when HART multidrop is used. But a direct connection to a HART enabled analog input card is not HART multidrop. So I would think the HART short address should remain 0, with the system 'addressing' the transmitter through its channel number. In the 'SA System Alarm Message' (photo), does the CH0x represent a particular Mag 5000, for instance, the one wired to ch 6? Are the settings for HART short address still at 0? 5) Does an error for NODE 01, Slot 08, CH08 represent a particular Mag 5000? Dan

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11/24/2014 2:57 PM	Rate (0)
Andrey1551 Posts: 2 Rating: (0)	Dear Dan, Many thanks for your reply. The input resistance is ok, it was the first thing which I checked. Question1: Does the DCS get any valid HART data from any Mag 5000? Answer: We receive all valid data from HART, but communication is constantly interrupted. Q2: How many of the eight installed Mag 5000's provides valid data? 1? 2? all 8? A: We receive valid data from all of them. Q3: What data is the DCS is requesting from the Mag 5000? Primary and Secondary values? A: Primary (PV), Secondary (SV), Third (TV). Q4: The Mag 5000 has a menu for HART, which includes a HART short address. A: We use point to point communications, and every MAG5000 has short address - 0. Q5: Does an error for NODE 01, Slot 08, CH08 represent a particular Mag 5000? A: NODE 01, Slot 08, CH05 (CH06, CH07, CH08) belongs to Mag 5000. CH05 - PV, CH06 - SV, CH07 - TV, CH08 - QV (When we started investigating of HART communication error, we used all four variables. At the site three variables are used. One more thing. I connected with your colleagues in Moscow Siemens and described this problem. They told me, that some time ago some MAG5000 made in France were released with defect of soldering. Connection between the capacitor and a zero resistance is bad (foto). But they have not the serial number list of these devices. Could you provide this list? In this case we will be able to check our devices and everything will become clear. Best Regards, Andrey. Attachment Foto_3.jpg (227 Downloads)
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11/24/2014 4:36 PM	Rate (0)
danw Gold Expert Joined: 3/28/2010 Last visit: 12/6/2024 Posts: 1095 Rating: (215)	Thank you for your excellent reply and for supplying so much information on the issue at hand. Since the Mag 5000's report all three requested HART variables, the basics of HART communications are working - wiring and basic HART commands. The issue might lie with the software and its requests or its interpretation of received data, or it might be communications collisions. Or it could be a slave (Mag 5000) issue. I have no experience on software (DCS) master HART comm using analog input passthrough. I have only used HART as point-to-point ( a handheld, PDM or PACTWARE) where there is no issue of the possibility of communication issues with the field device. I'm not aware of a commerical HART protocol analyzer that displays the communications traffic, but then again, I've never needed one. The 1200-2400 Hz FSK HART signal can presumably be demodulated with a Hayes compatible telephone modem and a terminal program could then save the traffic for analysis (HyperTerminal?), but the real issue is getting access to what the proper protocol looks like (the supposedly open HART protocol is only 'open' to those who buy the published standard). This is a user forum hosted by Siemens. I'm just a user, I'm not a Siemens insider, so I have no access to 'inside information' like production problems involving capacitor bad solder joints. You can make a "Support Request" from another web page on this site, that goes to Siemens support, as opposed to this forum populated by users. I'm told that Siemens people deal with issues submitted to the support request area. You can poke around under My Support > Support Request > New Request and give them a summary of what you've mentioned here. It's important to state what works and what doesn't work, to narrow down the issue (All 3 variables, PV, SV, TV, read properly but there is an interruption almost every 2 seconds that causes an error). If you contact Siemens support and get a resolution, it would benefit the entire community if you'd reply here with the resolution is, otherwise, we never find out and the next guy with a similar problem gets no further, either. Dan
	Last edited by: danw at: 11/25/2014 7:50 PM
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11/24/2014 5:15 PM	Rate (0)
danw Gold Expert Joined: 3/28/2010 Last visit: 12/6/2024 Posts: 1095 Rating: (215)	My gut feeling is that the software is polling too fast. HART is a very slow protocol. I suspect that if you increase (double) the time interval between polls that the alarm issue will disappear. It might be worth a test on one MAG 5000 to see what happens.

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