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Siemens software and linux

Created by: Darius at: 6/20/2010 8:47 PM (15 Replies)

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6/20/2010 8:47 PM	Rate (0)
Darius Platinum Member Joined: 9/28/2005 Last visit: 12/10/2024 Posts: 2957 Rating: (243)	Hello all, I just wanted to hear your opinion. Do you ever wanted to have Siemens software for Linux operating system ? Now the only software for Linux is Simatic.Net drivers. Do you ever imagine running Step-7 on Linux ? I've heard some success storied running Step-7 on Wine emulator, but it would be great to have native support. Isn't it ? How do you think ? I have this question because I use Linux a lot these days and I like stability and security when running Linux OS. Lots of global comanies turn to Linux side (example Google), so maybe someday Siemens will make the same ?
	Best regards, Darius
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6/20/2010 9:09 PM	Rate (0)
umencho Diamond Member Joined: 3/21/2006 Last visit: 1/14/2025 Posts: 10239 Rating: (1182)	Hello Darius, It's a good question. I played with Linux until released of Windows7. Now I found this version of Windows has almost the same stability like Linux. (OK my point of view.). I think Siemens already started with this direction. Its software to be compatible with different OS. For the moment I think the main problems are: a big numbers types of Siemens software; internal connection between them; internal connection between Siemens software and Windows like OS. These are very big problems, which need time and time. But meanwhile everything goes forward, I mean hardware. So, Siemens don't have enough time. If you compare for example with LOGO! software - this software is 'alone" not connected with another one. Siemens developed version for Linux. Another point is even SimaticNEt version for Linux is like - OPC connectivity layer for *nix platform... Finally, I don't think we will have official Step7 compatible with Linux, but would be good... Have a nice week! best regards, Hristo Mihalev

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6/20/2010 9:12 PM	Rate (0)
IBN-Service Posts: 8946 Rating: (999)	Darius Hello all, I just wanted to hear your opinion. Do you ever wanted to have Siemens software for Linux operating system ? Now the only software for Linux is Simatic.Net drivers. Do you ever imagine running Step-7 on Linux ? I've heard some success storied running Step-7 on Wine emulator, but it would be great to have native support. Isn't it ? How do you think ? I have this question because I use Linux a lot these days and I like stability and security when running Linux OS. Lots of global comanies turn to Linux side (example Google), so maybe someday Siemens will make the same ? Hi Darius, I never run this Software on LINUX. Also, I dont think that SIEMENS will develope Step7 for Linux. In due of the contract they have with MICROSOFT.
IBN-Service Posts: 8946 Rating: (999)
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6/20/2010 9:56 PM	Rate (0)
Darius Platinum Member Joined: 9/28/2005 Last visit: 12/10/2024 Posts: 2957 Rating: (243)	Yes, it seems that dream never come true . UMENCHO is right about "alone" Siemens software. It is relatively easy to make Linux version of that kind of software, but the whole thing TIA its not possible I think. Ok, time will show. These days Microsoft do not have influence and power as before so who knows what will be situation lets say after 10 years. Linux and other OS (not Windows) is growing and growing and getting more powerful, so maybe some day... If there was posibility to choose then I would allways choose Linux for runninjg SCADA. Its a way more better for 24/7 running of applications. Thanks for your opinions.
	Best regards, Darius
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6/21/2010 8:54 PM	Rate (0)
H-H Platinum Member Joined: 7/2/2008 Last visit: 9/30/2024 Posts: 928 Rating: (309)	Hello Darius, Darius I just wanted to hear your opinion. Do you ever wanted to have Siemens software for Linux operating system ? Honestly NO. Maybe because I got used to Windows problems with Siemens problems. I would like to point to another problem beside what both UMENCHOand IBN-Servicehave already mentioned. UMENCHO the main problems are: a big numbers types of Siemens software; internal connection between them; internal connection between Siemens software and Windows like OS. These are very big problems, which need time and time. But meanwhile everything goes forward, I mean hardware. So, Siemens don't have enough time. IBN-Service Also, I dont think that SIEMENS will develope Step7 for Linux. In due of the contract they have with MICROSOFT. First I would like to comment on UMENCHO's words. I believe that Siemens is going forward in software as well as in hardware. I believe they are working very hard on software likedigital factory and Automation designer. Here comes another big problem which is openness to other systems and other softawre(s) like ERP, MES,CAD,EPLAN and many other things. So, even if Siemens could manage to put all Siemens software(s) on Linux, they would be still facing problems integrating with other software(s) (that are not running Linux). So,Maybe they think it's better investing more money on making more powerful software(s) that are widely open to other industrial engineering tools than investing money to turn their software(s) into Linux. So, that was my opinion. Darius These days Microsoft do not have influence and power as before so who knows what will be situation lets say after 10 years. Linux and other OS (not Windows) is growing and growing and getting more powerful Maybe generally yes but industrially, I don't think so. Darius If there was posibility to choose then I would allways choose Linux for runninjg SCADA. Its a way more better for 24/7 running of applications. I'm not trying to defend Windows but I've seen plants running with SCADA that's either based on Windows 2000 or Windows XP and they have been running 24/7 without problems for many years. So, I'm not exited to Linux my work. Best regards. H-H

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1/18/2011 5:21 PM	Rate (0)
thijsee Posts: 35 Rating: (1)	An interesting discussion! I think we must distinguish between short and long term. For the long term Linux has the best papers: - independant of any major software company - more (free) choice for applications (developpers) - stable - more technology driven - less commercial driven (like every 3 year a new design) - open architecture, well documented - uses open standards - gains more and more companies involved (momentum is growing) - CoDeSys, an alternative for Step7 is already available for Linux - ... For the short term I see some problems for both Windows and Linux. Windows: - an application/development gap exists between Windows XP and Windows 7, mainly caused by failured Windows Vista - Siemens doesn't have all applications ready and tested for just one Windows version (see: Which SIMATIC software packages are compatible with which Microsoft Windows operating system and with STEP 7 V5.5? on http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/22636619) - Windows Vista has a nearly empty column in de Compatibility list - best Windows choice seems Windows XP but new hardware for this platform unfortunately seems to be faded away (!?) - old applications (e.g. ProTool) are not functioning anymore on new Windows versions - a lot of effort is spent to get used to new Windows versions Linux: - getting used to Linux will cost time - connections to hardware devices needs to be developped/tested - conenctions to other (Windows) software has to be developped/tested - old applications (e.g. ProTool) are not functioning/tested for Linux / WINE (Windows emulator on Linux) - Siemens has a strong connection/dependency with Microsoft (-Office, .Net) Siemens is nearly locked in with Microsoft software
thijsee Posts: 35 Rating: (1)
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1/19/2011 8:36 AM	Rate (0)
TomDeWou Platinum Member Joined: 11/15/2006 Last visit: 1/20/2025 Posts: 1319 Rating: (176)	What about all the different Linux distributions and kernels? Yes, it is more open than windows, but isn't that a problem to users, too? If everyone has it's own kernel built, who knows what might be wrong with it? And, many employees in a factory who must work with the machines aren't really firm with PC handling, neither with Windows nor with Linux. So they currently know the basics on handling Windows applications, now they should use Unix or Linux - isn't this weird? Ok, in future more and more people will grow up with PCs, so they more easily find into those world, but it's not easy to tell people working with Windows their whole live they now should use linux for their last 3 years they have to work. Just my 2 cents .. :)
	Have Fun! TomDeWou
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1/19/2011 1:38 PM	Rate (0)
Mike J Platinum Expert Joined: 10/9/2007 Last visit: 1/22/2025 Posts: 1253 Rating: (115)	Hi Mysmall contribution. I have small experience on Linux, so excuse me ifI said something wrong about it. Some colleagues here are thinking ontheir personal/programmers side - engineering software - while others on the operational side - like 24/7 operation. But we have to remember that most peoplein this forum are programmers and deliver the system to customers. Does the customer require Linux? Will the customer like to have a system based on Linux, which willdemand specific trainings about the OS apart from Scada and Engineering softwares, concerns about network as many SCADA systems are integrated to the "office" world with Windows,and so on. And as TomDeWou said, there are several "flavours" of Linux, and Siemens wouldprobably have to choose one of them and makea new one. Then we are back to the personal side. Do you like Ubuntu and "Siemens Linux" was based on RedHat... I know a Scada system which is made for Linux. You don't install the scadaon Linux, but you install their Linux distribution and the Scada is already their. Mike J
	Energy Automation products: Sicam, Siprotec, Digsi
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1/20/2011 3:00 PM	Rate (0)
Riesenbaby Regular Member Joined: 9/30/2008 Last visit: 12/18/2024 Posts: 9 Rating: (1)	thijsee An interesting discussion! I think we must distinguish between short and long term. For the long term Linux has the best papers: - independant of any major software company - more (free) choice for applications (developpers) - stable - more technology driven - less commercial driven (like every 3 year a new design) - open architecture, well documented - uses open standards - gains more and more companies involved (momentum is growing) - CoDeSys, an alternative for Step7 is already available for Linux - ... For the short term I see some problems for both Windows and Linux. Windows: - an application/development gap exists between Windows XP and Windows 7, mainly caused by failured Windows Vista - Siemens doesn't have all applications ready and tested for just one Windows version (see: Which SIMATIC software packages are compatible with which Microsoft Windows operating system and with STEP 7 V5.5? on http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/22636619) - Windows Vista has a nearly empty column in de Compatibility list - best Windows choice seems Windows XP but new hardware for this platform unfortunately seems to be faded away (!?) - old applications (e.g. ProTool) are not functioning anymore on new Windows versions - a lot of effort is spent to get used to new Windows versions Linux: - getting used to Linux will cost time - connections to hardware devices needs to be developped/tested - conenctions to other (Windows) software has to be developped/tested - old applications (e.g. ProTool) are not functioning/tested for Linux / WINE (Windows emulator on Linux) - Siemens has a strong connection/dependency with Microsoft (-Office, .Net) Siemens is nearly locked in with Microsoft software Your last point is the biggest problem for Siemens and it's users. I think it is very bad choose to lay all your cards in the hand of one player, when this player goes down... Due to the instability of older Windows, the bad compatibility of Seven I'm seriously thinking about dropping Siemens and going over to something that is wider supported. The only problem in that is that I didn't found a system yet that has the possibilities that Siemens hardware has. I have spoken to someone that already had the complete package running under Linux in a VM, giving him at least a stable bare system saving him a lot of time. Different kernels, different flavours is no problem. Software packages under linux work completely different then software under Windows. I think that every person used to running Windows can use linux within a day. My parent (over 50) went from WXP to Ubuntu linux with no serious issues. They don't want to go back anymore. Even the most dedicated Windows fanboy I know has to admit that Ubuntu is very good and maybe even better then WXP...

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2/11/2011 12:05 PM	Rate (0)
thijsee Posts: 35 Rating: (1)	Thanks Riesenbaby for your reply. You make clear the transition to the Linux platform can be even smaller than from Windows XP to Windows 7. For me, most clear is to be prepared for a steady, slow transition to the Linux platform. A lot of driver-related hurdles have to be made, major players like Siemens have to be convinced (a lot of others are already) that the dependancy to one major monopolist is not healthy, not sustainable. The OS of a computer, as infrastructure, has to be maintained and developped by a open and common organisation or community. I think the technical hurdles are less hard than the commercial ones. A lot of companies are commercially dependent of - earning money on - this monopoly. A big part of this money is spent on maintaining our dependency. This all contradicts to the actual call for freedom!
thijsee Posts: 35 Rating: (1)
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