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Simulation does not work with PLCsim - V17

Created by: Kamil_Maszkowski at: 7/18/2022 6:24 PM (4 Replies)

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7/18/2022 6:24 PM	Rate (0)
Kamil_Maszkowski Member Joined: 5/21/2017 Last visit: 11/24/2023 Posts: 15 Rating: (2)	Hi I'm switching to unified system. With real panels-plc combo everything works fine so far. I have a problem with unified simulation - it's not working with PLCsim (normal, not adv) - but in V17 normal should work Short info: TIA Portal - V17 upd.4 PLCsim - V17 WIN 10 21H2 PG/PC Interface - S7ONLINE -> PLCSIM.TCPIP.1 Simple test project: S7-1500 TP700 Comfort MTP700 Unified Comfort Simulation of "old" comfort works ok. Simulation with unified comfort works only with internal tags Without any connection configured In SIMATIC Runtime Manager project starts immediately with state "Running" and green icon In web browser (simulation) i can "play" with hmi internal tags If i add connection to PLC and try to access any tag: In SIMATIC Runtime Manager it takes around 1 minute with state "starting" and after that i have state "partly running" with orange icon In web browser (simulation) i/o field with plc process tag has yellow indicator (internal hmi tags works) This was fresh install of TIA so TIA instalator turned on required win functions during installation. Of course nevertheless i've checked it. I've tried with S7-1500 FW 2.8 and 2.9 (to chceck if it's caused by certificate in 2.9) I've tried both starting plcsim first than unified and vice versa I've chceck user groups in windows (my user is in "SIMATIC HMI" group and "SIEMENS TIA Engineer" group My user is the administrator I've tried running TIA with "right click->run as administrator" I'm running out of ideas how to fix it

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7/21/2022 8:41 PM	Rate (0)
Kamil_Maszkowski Member Joined: 5/21/2017 Last visit: 11/24/2023 Posts: 15 Rating: (2)	Ok, so further investigation effects: Now i have 2 PCs (laptop and desktop) and real 1500 (FW2.9) and real 1200 (FW4.3) Both PCs WIN 10 21H2 (19044.1826) System ID xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-AAOEM Deacivated AV/Firewall Exacly the same windows options/features activated in Web Menagement/WWW Services TIA V17 upd 4 PLCsim normal, not advanced no virtual machines Laptop Installed TIA V14/V15/V15.1/V16/V17 (installation in order from oldest to newest, after V16 install manual windows options activation) Desktop Installed TIA V15.1/V17 (first 15.1 than 17, v17 installator activated windows options) On Laptop: Unified Comfort MTP700 Simulation with real 1200 and 1500 - OK, works Runtime Manager state "running" with "green" PG/PC Interface - S7ONLINE -> Intel ethernet l217-LM TCPIP Auto.1 Unified Comfort MTP700 Simulation with PLCsim 1200 and 1500 - NOT WORKING But Runtime Manager state "running" with "green" PG/PC Interface - S7ONLINE -> PLCSIM.TCPIP.1 On Desktop Unified Comfort MTP700 Simulation with real 1200 and 1500 - NOT WORKING Runtime Manager state "partly running" with "orange" PG/PC Interface - S7ONLINE -> Intel ethernet l219-V TCPIP Auto.1 Unified Comfort MTP700 Simulation with PLCsim 1200 and 1500 - NOT WORKING Runtime Manager state "partly running" with "orange" PG/PC Interface - S7ONLINE -> PLCSIM.TCPIP.1 On Laptop i also checked in V16, unified simulation with real plc's - it's ok, works So to sum up On both PCs simulation is not working with plcsim On desktop simulation is not even working with real PLCs... Any ideas ?
	Last edited by: Kamil_Maszkowski at: 07/21/2022 20:43:38
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7/22/2022 11:52 AM	Rate (0)
Denilson Pegaia Platinum Expert Joined: 9/23/2005 Last visit: 12/8/2023 Posts: 4284 Rating: (1381)	Kamil_Maszkowski Ok, so further investigation effects: Now i have 2 PCs (laptop and desktop) and real 1500 (FW2.9) and real 1200 (FW4.3) Both PCs WIN 10 21H2 (19044.1826) System ID xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-AAOEM Deacivated AV/Firewall Exacly the same windows options/features activated in Web Menagement/WWW Services TIA V17 upd 4 PLCsim normal, not advanced no virtual machines Laptop Installed TIA V14/V15/V15.1/V16/V17 (installation in order from oldest to newest, after V16 install manual windows options activation) Desktop Installed TIA V15.1/V17 (first 15.1 than 17, v17 installator activated windows options) On Laptop: Unified Comfort MTP700 Simulation with real 1200 and 1500 - OK, works Runtime Manager state "running" with "green" PG/PC Interface - S7ONLINE -> Intel ethernet l217-LM TCPIP Auto.1 Unified Comfort MTP700 Simulation with PLCsim 1200 and 1500 - NOT WORKING But Runtime Manager state "running" with "green" PG/PC Interface - S7ONLINE -> PLCSIM.TCPIP.1 On Desktop Unified Comfort MTP700 Simulation with real 1200 and 1500 - NOT WORKING Runtime Manager state "partly running" with "orange" PG/PC Interface - S7ONLINE -> Intel ethernet l219-V TCPIP Auto.1 Unified Comfort MTP700 Simulation with PLCsim 1200 and 1500 - NOT WORKING Runtime Manager state "partly running" with "orange" PG/PC Interface - S7ONLINE -> PLCSIM.TCPIP.1 On Laptop i also checked in V16, unified simulation with real plc's - it's ok, works So to sum up On both PCs simulation is not working with plcsim On desktop simulation is not even working with real PLCs... Any ideas ? Hi, in both cases I suggest some "general measures", however with no guaranty that it will work: Check if the project is a least apparently consistent Open the project Create a new project and open it at same time Copy manually the language and user settings Go to original project, network view and mark all, ctr C, new project, ctr V rebuild all controllers, Hw rebuild all, SW rebuild all rebuild all HMI, Hw rebuild all, SW rebuild all Check installation Check for updates (help, installed software, check for updates) - in special for PLCSIM (update 1 for PLCSIM Advanced is available in https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/br/en/view/109784441 Repair the installations Run again WinCC Unified Configuration Be sure that you are online in the PLC before to start WinCC (sometimes, this procedures add a IP to your Ethernet interface)
	Last edited by: Denilson Pegaia at: 07/22/2022 12:09:06 Denilson Pegaia Siemens Industry Sector Technical Support
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7/22/2022 1:23 PM	Rate (0)
Kamil_Maszkowski Member Joined: 5/21/2017 Last visit: 11/24/2023 Posts: 15 Rating: (2)	Hi Denilson (i hoped that You will jump into this topic) All software is up to date Multiple hw/sw rebuilds So my next test results: Previous test was a little wrong On Laptop i created new project in V16 and than upgraded it to V17, that got me thinking I haven't changed HMI system version, the HMI was still V16.0.0.0 Based on that i've conducted next experiments and now both PCs (Laptop and Desktop) behave the same with both PLCs (1200 and 1500) I also find out that i wasn't using encrypted transfer. TIA V17 Tests both with and without encrypted transfer, same effect ( Encrypted transfer configuration: 1. Unified Configuration again 2. Runtime manager -> setting -> secure connection -> passowrd 3. TIA -> settings -> simulation -> hmi -> activate encrypted password ) MTP700 V16.0.0.0 in TIA V17 Simulation works with real PLCs (Runtime Manager "Running" green) Simulation not working with PLCsim (Runtime Manager "Running" green) MTP700 V17.0.0.0 and V17.0.0.1 Simulation is not working with real PLCs (Runtime Manager "Partly running" orange) Simulation is not working with PLCsim (Runtime Manager "Partly running" orange) PLCsim started from TIA button "start simulation" and from windows "run as admin" - no diference Sum up Only HMI V16.0.0.0 in TIA V17 with real PLCs works
	Last edited by: Kamil_Maszkowski at: 07/22/2022 13:29:11 Last edited by: Kamil_Maszkowski at: 07/22/2022 13:31:43
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7/23/2022 2:55 PM	Rate (1)
Kamil_Maszkowski Member Joined: 5/21/2017 Last visit: 11/24/2023 Posts: 15 Rating: (2)	FINALY IT WORKS !!! :) So for all who struggle with Unified simulation (i've diged through many pdfs, forums etc - i hope You will not have to) I've made it to work with: WIN10 21H1 and 21H2 (slightly different "clicks") PLCsim normal Real PLCs both 1500 (tested on FW 2.9) and 1200 (tested on FW 4.5) Tested on Chrome and Edge web browsers I will provide all the steps i've made cuz i'm not exactly sure witch are 100% required and also my way of finding it Before i found the fix i've made few assumptions and steps: 1. It's almost imposible to have corrupted TIA install on two PCs 2. It's almost imposible to constantly create inconsistend TIA projects on two PCs 3. So it's not TIA itself, it's the combination on TIA and Windows or something in windows 4. On both PCs i had 21H2 (official support in combatibilty tool for V17 - 21H1, in release notes/install manual for V17 - 20H2. Let's not comment this info conflict...) 5. I've rolled back system on laptop from 21H2 to 21H1 (on desktop i left 21H2 for parallel testing) 6. V17 is using secure PG/PC communication, i've upgraded 1200 form 4.3 to 4.5 but in "PLC security settings" i've allowed for both secure/legacy Ok this was my "start point" and nothing changed, still HMI with system V17.x.x.x not communicating with real PLC/PLCsim, V16.0.0.0 works with real PLCs, not with PLCsim I know that all required windows functions (IIS/WWW are correct) so what's next? I decided to check windows user groups one more time "Windows how to" ( Computer Management->Local Users and Groups->Groups of in cmd "lusrmgr.msc" On list of groups right click on choosen group -> Add Than You see the users assigned to group If You want to add user click add and type user name ) • PlcSimUsers (OK) • RTIL Tracing Users (OK) • Siemens TIA Engineer (OK) • SIMATIC HMI (OK) • SIMATIC HMI VIEWER (AHA, user list was empty, so i've added my user) But still no effect on simulation ... :/ Ok so next guess -> Certificates First test platform - Laptop with Windows 10 21H1 1. Check Your computer name (right click on start -> system) 2. If your name is longer than 15 characters, change it to shorter and restart computer, remeber/write down the name 3. Go to IIS Manager -> Server certificates 4. Remove all certificates with "Siemens.Automation.WinCCUnified Project CA" or system name or other with names used in "WinCC Unified Cinfiguration" 5. Open WinCC Unified Certificate Manager -> click "create new certificate authority" 6. Right click on created certificate authority ("Siemens.Automation.WinCC Unified ProjectCA) and select "Add device" 7. Put You computer name and leave IP adress empty, click create 8. Right click on created device and select "Add webserver certificate" 9. Right click on created web certificate and select "show" 10. In certificate window click "Install certificate" button 11. Select Local machine and next 12. Leave automatic certificate store and click next 13. After install close Certificate Manager 14. Open WinCC Unified Configuration 15. If You changed computer name -> select "make addidtional settings" 16. Select "Create a new certificate" (in this windows version "select existing is now inactive), click next 17. User management - form TIA 18. Acivate secure download, write down password 19. Finish configuration 20. Open TIA Project (existing or create new) 21. If You havent used encrypted transfer or changed passowrd in unified configuration: a) TIA options -> settings -> simulation -> hmi simulation b) Acivate encrypted passowrd, write password c) Open SIMATIC Runtime manager as administrator d) Go to settings->general->secure connection and write password 22. If it was existing project rebuild it 23. Click start simulation button in TIA for Your unified HMI (assuming that previously You have download hw/sw to PLC) 24. After some time in runtime manager You should see state "running" with green (finally not "partly :) ) 25. Open web browser and type "https://computername" not "https://localhost" 26. Unified web page will open withou warnings (if you have warning accept it and click Certificate authority and install certificate for browser) DONE !!! It works with real PLCs and normal PLCsim If You are using PLCsim start it first before starting unified simulation and make sure PG/PC interface is set to PLCsim Ok now Desktop with Windows 10 21H2: steps 1-8 are identical to 21H1 Than: 9. Right click on certificate and click "install" 10. After that Right click on created web certificate and select "show" 11. In certificate window click "Install certificate" button 12. Select Local machine and next 13. Leave automatic certificate store and click next 14. After install rigt click on device and select "Install all certificates" 15. After install close Certificate Manager 16. Open WinCC Unified Configuration 17. If You changed computer name -> select "make addidtional settings" 18. Select "Select an existing certificate" with the name of computer we just justed in certificate manager All further steps are identical to steps 17-26 form 21H1 config I havent done more testing yet but i hope it will work with all PLCs firmwares etc
	Last edited by: Kamil_Maszkowski at: 07/23/2022 21:57:09 Last edited by: Jen_Moderator at: 07/25/2022 09:45:45 Text formatting optimized.
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This contribution was helpful to 2 thankful Users Jen_Moderator Denilson Pegaia

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