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Siwarex FTA and weighing hopper from multiple silos

Created by: Brynjar at: 5/4/2011 7:43 AM (11 Replies)

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5/4/2011 7:43 AM	Rate (0)
Brynjar Posts: 13 Rating: (0)	Hello all! I'm planning a small weighing system based on 3silos (without scales), eachattached with a magnetic feeder into a common weighing hopper. The weighing hopper is equipped with 3 weighing cells which is connected to a Siwarex FTA (and PCS7). I'll doze materials, one by one (in a special mix/recept) down to the hopper and when all materials are finished into to hopper, I'll register weight of each material and total weight, then empty it down to production. Is Siwarex FTA the correct solution for such an installation? I now I could have used a standard weighing amplifier/analog inputand done the logics in S7, but I want to know if FTA (or others in Siwarex-family) is a better solution. I also want to get use of predefined software/faceplates in PCS7. I know there will be some logics in PCS7, but the weighing procedure of each material should be done in Siwarex.. Anybody out there who can give me a recommendation?
Brynjar Posts: 13 Rating: (0)
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5/5/2011 5:15 PM	Rate (0)
Siwarexi Gold Expert Joined: 1/4/2007 Last visit: 12/13/2024 Posts: 1163 Rating: (175)	Hello Brynjar, Yes, the Siwarex FTA is the correct solution for your application. Important is that you are dosing one material after another into the hopper. Into the following FAQ you can find out the correct software (= configuration package CD) for your PCS7 system: http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/10183075 Into that configuration package CD you can find: - the AS software (CFC plan) - the OS software (faceplates) - Siwatool software (commissioning software) Attached you can find an abridgement of the Siwarex FTA of the current weighing technology catalogue. There you can find the accessories for the Siwarex FTA module, e.g. junction box, Siwarex cable, … Best regards Siwarexi Attachment Siwarex_FTA_module.pdf (353 Downloads)

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5/5/2011 10:26 PM	Rate (0)
Brynjar Posts: 13 Rating: (0)	Thanks a lot.. Now when FTA is defined as the correct equipment, the next question is: What type of filling should be used? I see there is a solution: DR4 - Type: filling (additive) without emptying, but as I'm going to fill from silo1, then from silo2 andlast from silo3 before emptying, could I use one of these filling types and get use of FTA's enclosed functions? Each filling-type start with taring, but I will only tare before the first silo. Then start from the next silo and add material into theweighing hopper (scale).Ialso have to do coarse/fine feeding of each material. Any idea how to handle this sequence, but based on one of the "filling types" in FTA?
Brynjar Posts: 13 Rating: (0)
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5/6/2011 2:05 PM	Rate (1)
Siwarexi Gold Expert Joined: 1/4/2007 Last visit: 12/13/2024 Posts: 1163 Rating: (175)	Hello Brynjar, The type of filling: DR4 - Type: filling (additive) without emptying is correct, because you want to dose from silo 1 into the hopper. After that filling, you want to dose from the silo 2 into the hopper. That means between the first and the second filling, you don’t want to emptying the hopper. Also between the second and the third filling, you don’t want to emptying the hopper. => That means, the type of filling filling (additive) without emptying is correct. If you have finished the three dosings from silo1 – 3 into the hopper, you can open the emptying valve by yourself via PCS7. Why do you want to dose only the first dosing with taring? Normally all dosings are tared from the FTA module! If you are starting a dosing with taring, the FTA can dose exactly from 0 up to your required set point! I recommend you to start all dosings with taring You have two bits into your CFC-plan of PCS7 for the coarse and fine signal. You can use these two bits, but you have to decide into your PCS7 program which silo you want to open to fill the hopper. Best regards Siwarexi

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5/6/2011 4:38 PM	Rate (0)
Brynjar Posts: 13 Rating: (0)	Thanks! Yes, I understand taring between each material is the best solution. Regarding which silo to feed from, we normally use one common thyristor controller and a contactor-multiplexer to route the power to the actual magnetic feeder. Can I use the analog output on FTA to control this thyristor controller?
Brynjar Posts: 13 Rating: (0)
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5/6/2011 4:49 PM	Rate (0)
Siwarexi Gold Expert Joined: 1/4/2007 Last visit: 12/13/2024 Posts: 1163 Rating: (175)	HelloBrynjar, Yes, you can control the analog output via your PCS7 program: You can send a value from your PCS7 program to the Siwarex FTA module. Afterwards that value is changed from the Siwarex FTA module into a current for the analog output. With this current you can control your actual magnetic feeder. Best regards Siwarexi

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5/10/2011 7:46 AM	Rate (0)
Brynjar Posts: 13 Rating: (0)	Thanks! I wonder if there is any application examples regarding FTA and multiscale weighing? I found an older description describing Siwarex Batch system, but this doesn't fit FTA.Anybody have any knowledge about this?
Brynjar Posts: 13 Rating: (0)
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5/10/2011 1:33 PM	Rate (0)
Siwarexi Gold Expert Joined: 1/4/2007 Last visit: 12/13/2024 Posts: 1163 Rating: (175)	Hello Brynjar, Unfortunately there is no example regarding FTA and multiscale weighing for PCS7. The Siwarex Batch software was for the Siwarex M module. Best regards Siwarexi

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5/26/2011 9:28 AM	Rate (0)
Brynjar Posts: 13 Rating: (0)	This project is creeping forward and I have got the "SIWAREX Multiscale" software package and the configuration package forPCS7 . I've installed in my testing unit (not PCS7, only S7), but have some problems (due to my level of competence) finding out some issues. Especially how to control the individual contactors in my multiplexer. Before starting the weighing procedure, I have to activate the correct "channel" through the multiplexer. The mA-output from FTAshould activatethe thyristor-controller and this unit should then multiplex powerto thefeeder corresponding to the actual component toweigh out. Where in "SIWAREX Multiscale" is this output to be controlled? What signal from the program is corresponding to the actual component? Can I use the dig.out direct from FTA? I only find information regarding status (DR7). You wrote "but you have to decide into your PCS7 program which silo you want to open to fill the hopper." How does this correspond with this question? Also, how is the behaviour of the analog output from FTA? You wrote earlier "You can send a value from your PCS7 program to the Siwarex FTA module. Afterwards that value is changed from the Siwarex FTA module into a current for the analog output. With this current you can control your actual magnetic feeder." How does this correspond with the calculation of analog output signalwhich is done in FTA? Why should I send an analog value from PCS7 if FTA is calculating the correct output?
Brynjar Posts: 13 Rating: (0)
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5/26/2011 5:33 PM	Rate (1)
Siwarexi Gold Expert Joined: 1/4/2007 Last visit: 12/13/2024 Posts: 1163 Rating: (175)	Hello Brynjar, 1.) Into the DB32 you can see the component, which is actual dosed: Component 1: DB32.DBX176.2 Component 2: DB32.DBX226.2 Component 3: DB32.DBX276.2 … With these information you can activate the correct "channel". 2.) "Can I use the dig.out direct from FTA?" If you want yes, but you have to activate the correct "channel" to your silo. (Don't you need the analogue output for your dosing?) 3.) "You wrote "but you have to decide into your PCS7 program which silo you want to open to fill the hopper." How does this correspond with this question?" I didn’t know that you have the Multiscale software. Please see my answer in 1.) 4.) I thought you want to use the analogue output to control the magnetic feeder by yourself with a current of 0/4 … 20 mA. But also the Siwarex FTA module can control the analogue output. During the gross dosing the Siwarex FTA module is sending a high current signal and during the fine dosing the Siwarex FTA module is sending a low current signal. Into the Siwarex FTA you can define the current for the gross dosing and for the fine dosing. You can define these two values into the Siwatool software in the DR23: -“Default value for analogue output with coarse in %” -“Default value for analogue output with fine in %”. Best regards Siwarexi

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