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System Selection for long Distance

Created by: Hunky at: 2/24/2008 8:45 AM (3 Replies)

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2/24/2008 8:45 AM	Rate (0)
Hunky Posts: 82 Rating: (6)	Dear All, I am having a project and i need your help. 1. We want to have remote station of Wincc at about 150KM from the Operator Station. So what are the possibilities for this. 2. We are having some remote devices about 4 KM,so what are the possibilities.Can we work with Profibus with repeaters or AS Interface or with Fiber Optics. I dont wana go with Fiber Optics and Radio communication. SO is there any other options. If there any other possibilty,please let me know. Thanks in advance Regards PLC Engineer
Hunky Posts: 82 Rating: (6)
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2/24/2008 9:08 AM	Rate (0)
INS Gold Member Joined: 4/6/2006 Last visit: 2/5/2024 Posts: 604 Rating: (56)	Hello PLC Engineer, 1. Maybe a Web Client can be interesting or a dedicated Fiber Optic line. If you have you own Fiber Optic, which I doubt, you can have a look at the Scalance X308-2 LH+ and the Scalance X400 with Media Modules LH+. But I think a Web Client via Internet with a VPN TUnnel could be more interesting. 2. This depends on several things. One of them is how fast you needthe data. If you need it at fast a regular bus-system the option to use Fiber Optic is the best one. This is the Samefor ProfiNet or ProfiBus. Radio Signals transmitting of both systems is very hard because ProfiBus is not capable of being transmittedWireless in a goodway. This protocol must be 'translated' towards something else which slows down the complete Profibus. For ProfiNet you could look towards Wireless LAN which is very suitable for communication Wireless. But 4km is a very long distance for Wireless LAN. So this will be tricky. So just have a look at SINAUT. SINAUT is a telemetric system. Which can communicate on a reliable way over Internet, GPRS, GSM, Radio Waves, dedicated lines, ISDN, and so on. Furthermore the data will only be send if it's necessary or wanted, you can adjust this in the program. And one of the best things is, when the connection is lost or not possible, the data will be stored and send later if the connection is reestablished. Eventually redundant communication is also possible. Think about GPRS communication as a backup for a Internet connection.
	Best regards, INS
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2/24/2008 10:00 AM	Rate (0)
dchartier Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 9/27/2006 Last visit: 1/17/2025 Posts: 12330 Rating: (2700)	Hello PLC Engineer; For your WAN application, there are various ways you can achieve connectivity, but your choices will depend on what links you will have between the remote and local stations, and bandwith required. VPN is the way we usually go, if Internet is available and we need to havesecure communications. But there are other ways of doing it. Siemens proposes one document that examines various waysyou can connect; it includes: · An overview document describing WAN access mechanisms with: Basic information on the subject. An overview with selection aid for the different network accesses with schematic configurations. A glossary with explanations of individual terms. · VPN Connections with standard DSL Routers · Connection via a standard DSL Router with Port Forwarding· Connection via Dial in/out analog Routers · Secure Remote Access to SIMATIC Stations via Internet using GPRS Modem MD740-1 and SCALANCE S612 http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/26662448 You could also look at the SINAUT ST7 line of specialized modems: The SINAUT WAN networksThe following WANs can be used for data transmission: ● Dedicated lines (copper or fiber-optic cables) ● Private wireless networks (optionally with time slots) ● Analog telephone network ● Digital ISDN network ● Mobile wireless networks (GSM)All networks can be combined as necessary. Redundant paths are also possible. Star, bus (linear) and node structures can be implemented: http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/24621696 For your second application, 4 km is well within the transmission limits of single-mode fiber. You could decideto setupaProfibus-DP node in the remote station (you could use something like a OLM/G12-1300Long Distance (goes up to 15 km withmulti/single-mode fiber)if you want to use a Profibus connection to a ET 200-M). Have a look here: http://support.automation.siemens.com/GB/view/en/24164176 Hope this helps, Daniel Chartier
	Last edited by: dchartier at: 24.02.2008 10:01
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2/24/2008 11:12 PM	Rate (0)
J_Bell Posts: 5822 Rating: (412)	Dear PLC Engineer, I just want to add one Point to your second question... the first question has been answered completely in my mind. So, if you want to have I/O Connected and you do not want to use fibre we will have to use two things... first of all a low baud rate, with 187,5 kBit you can reach up to 1000 m per Segment, than each 1000 m one Repeater, even so there is no other node in between. So if you have 4000 m you need 4 Segments and 3 Repeaters, if you insist on CU Cable. With Fibre optics you can get even 4000 m with two OLM G11-1300 and 4000m fibre. Needless to say that the baud rate in this case is much higher.... You have to decide what you prefer. Best regards J_Bell
J_Bell Posts: 5822 Rating: (412)
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