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Use of SINAMICS S-120 for Cold Rolling Mill

Created by: Navnag at: 9/9/2008 1:37 PM (8 Replies)

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9/9/2008 1:37 PM	Rate (0)
Navnag Platinum Member Joined: 11/21/2007 Last visit: 1/21/2023 Posts: 2321 Rating: (302)	Hi For one of our projects for a Cold Rolling Mill , Siemens is supplying SINAMICS S-120 for Winders & Mill and MM440 drive for Payoff Reel. So far we have been using Only DC drives and DC motors for this application. However we have been assured by our Siemens contacts that the Drives now offered are suitable for the application. I would like to know if anyone has had any experience on use of SINAMICS S-120 , and MM440 for Rolling Mills application. Also what type of motors are suitable for use with these drives for Rolling Mill( Precise Speed and Tension control applications ) Thanks Navnag
	There is no such thing as the last bug in a program There are no stubborn bugs, There are only stubborn Debuggers.
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9/9/2008 3:17 PM	Rate (0)
Kampf-Pasman Posts: 75 Rating: (13)	Hello, we are using using only AC drives for over 10 years in our applications. Machines are winders and slitters for Aluminium from 6 micron up to 500 micron. Also winders and slitters for plastic from 1 micron up to 500 micron. The torque ratio we are using for the winders are in the range of 1/100. In the past we used Masterdrives and now Sinamics S120. Motors are are 1PH7, 1PL6, 1FT6 and 1FK7. We have no problem with accuracy in speed and torque. I would not use MM440 for the process, only for auxilliary drives, material handling and so on. What power do you need ? We use up to 300KW in AC without problems. regards pasman
Kampf-Pasman Posts: 75 Rating: (13)
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9/10/2008 9:45 AM	Rate (0)
Navnag Platinum Member Joined: 11/21/2007 Last visit: 1/21/2023 Posts: 2321 Rating: (302)	Thanks for the info Our Motor Ratings are : a) Mill - 1350kW, 554V 1713A, 491RPM, 25Hz b) Winders -650kW, 454V, 1048A, 492RPM, 25Hz c) Payoff - 110kW, 415V 50Hz We do not yet know the exact type nos. of the motors ( We have requested for the same ) Regards Navnag
	There is no such thing as the last bug in a program There are no stubborn bugs, There are only stubborn Debuggers.
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9/10/2008 12:55 PM	Rate (0)
UMENCHO Diamond Member Joined: 3/21/2006 Last visit: 12/18/2022 Posts: 10221 Rating: (1175)	Hi Everythink depends from project's budget. If you had already mill and winders motor, this is main hardware in plate mill ( cold or hot ) and Sinamics S-120 is the best choice. (more powerfull, long life, a lot of possibilities for communication and control and at the moment this is current and fashion motor control). For the other staff (payoff) you can use MM 440 or Simoreg DC Master. If you had old (existing) DC motor is better to use, then to buy new AC motors. regards

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9/11/2008 8:32 PM	Rate (0)
Kampf-Pasman Posts: 75 Rating: (13)	I would use S120 for all drives. Are the motors new, or is it an old machine?
Kampf-Pasman Posts: 75 Rating: (13)
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9/12/2008 5:52 AM	Rate (0)
Navnag Platinum Member Joined: 11/21/2007 Last visit: 1/21/2023 Posts: 2321 Rating: (302)	Hi This is a new Mill and All the Motors & Drives are new. The Motors are All invertor grade Induction Motors with forced cooling. We have used such motors with AC drives for Pump / Fan / Conveyor applications before; but I am not convinced that these will be able to deliver the speed-torque charactristics required for Rolling Mill application ( Especially at low speeds ) Motors are of Type : 1PQ4 I am convinced about the Sinamics S-120 use as far as the application is concerned. Bt what aoutusing such motors in Rolling Mills . ? Ihave only seen Synchronous Motors being used in some mills with AC Drives. Also what would happe in case of Emergency stop For such large motors ( I guess if E-stop PB is pressed then We can stop by regererative braking )but what happens to E-Stop triggerd by a Drive Fault / Power Failure. ( In case of DC we used Dynamic Braking resistances ) Regards Navnag
	Last edited by: Navnag at: 9/12/2008 5:58 AM Motor Type Added There is no such thing as the last bug in a program There are no stubborn bugs, There are only stubborn Debuggers.
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9/28/2008 4:21 AM	Rate (0)
hefeng_05 Posts: 60 Rating: (2)	hi normally in the cold rolling mill a lot of OEM of siemens used the master driver but in the payoff and winder they use the T400 to do the function of diameter calculation. in the master driver of version v3.4 the free block supply the diamteter calculation function but in sinamics of s120 till to version 2.5 we can not use the function of diameter caculation in driver ,so we must do this things in the PLC ,so i think it no problem to use the s120 for cold rolling mill , the difficult is the AGC control of the mill. Eric
hefeng_05 Posts: 60 Rating: (2)
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9/29/2008 1:34 PM	Rate (0)
Navnag Platinum Member Joined: 11/21/2007 Last visit: 1/21/2023 Posts: 2321 Rating: (302)	Hi all We are doing Diameter Computation in the PLC, so that is not a problem. My real concern is about the dynamic response of the drives with Squirell Cage Induction Motors especially at slow speeds. Regards Navnag
	There is no such thing as the last bug in a program There are no stubborn bugs, There are only stubborn Debuggers.
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10/9/2008 8:41 AM	Rate (0)
hefeng_05 Posts: 60 Rating: (2)	hi I dont think MM4 for payoff is a good idea you can used the S120 for payoff the motor you can select induction motor is enough Eric
hefeng_05 Posts: 60 Rating: (2)
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