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Version 6 problems

Created by: n3qik at: 6/12/2009 12:16 AM (9 Replies)

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6/12/2009 12:16 AM	Rate (0)
n3qik Posts: 12 Rating: (3)	We have used 6ED1 052-1MD00-0BA2 thru -0BA6. Today we ran into what could be a big problem for us. What we have found is going from version 5 to version 6 that the inputs 1 and 2 on version 6 are alot more senitive that 5. What I mean is on -0BA5, the input had to be about 6800 ohms or less to turn on. Well on -0BA6, inputs 1 and 2 will turn on at 47000 ohms. This has caused problems on one of jobs that we installed a 6 at. I remember reading some where that inputs 1 and 2 are high speed inputs. Is this a setting problem due to this???? A short term solution is not to use input 1 and 2. But some jobs we need all 8 inputs. Also, use of shielded wire is not a option, as we are not in control of what type of wire is run. Most wire lenghts are about 12 feet, but could be as long as 100 feet. Thanks for any help Ken
n3qik Posts: 12 Rating: (3)
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6/12/2009 12:38 AM	Rate (0)
rosa Posts: 191 Rating: (58)	on -0BA5, the input had to be about 6800 ohms or less to turn on. Well on -0BA6, inputs 1 and 2 will turn on at 47000 ohms. Hi!! i imagine that you are using a variable resistor or you are using a voltage divider to sense a digital stage... could you please explain a little what are you doing, or how does this change in the resistance makes you the problem.. ROSA
rosa Posts: 191 Rating: (58)
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6/12/2009 2:11 AM	Rate (0)
n3qik Posts: 12 Rating: (3)	We are just using as push button switch at the end of 12-100 feet of wire. The -0BA6 is giving us a faluse input when the switch is not getting pushed. The tech at the site stated when he removed the input wires then reconned them, the logo thought the input was tripped and ran the program for that input. I thought maybe the input impedance may have changed from -0BA5 to -0BA6. That is when I started to see at what resistance the inputs would trip at. Not every job we install a Logo at will have a mechanial switch, some systems will have a soild-state relay. This may cause problems if the off state is at 47000 ohms. The 47000 ohms is not the hightest resistance, it was what I stop at today as I ran out of time. Will do some more testing Friday/Saturday. The good news so far are, only inputs 1 and 2 are like this. I did notice the inputs 1 and 2 are also AI3 and AI4. This is new to -0BA6. Info on our appacation: The Logo is to sequence the unlocking and opening of a perdesterain doorway. This is by a push button on the inside of a building and a card reader on the outside. Thanks Ken
n3qik Posts: 12 Rating: (3)	Last edited by: n3qik at: 6/12/2009 2:36 AM Last edited by: n3qik at: 6/12/2009 2:13 AM
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6/12/2009 4:14 AM	Rate (1)
n3qik Posts: 12 Rating: (3)	Ok found out my problem. Looks like the model we where using has changed. We are using the 12/24RC In -0BA5, I1-I6 need 1.5 MA for a status High (1), I7,I8 need .1 MA for a status High (1). In 0BA6, I3-I6 need 2 MA for a status High (1), I1,I2,I7,I8 need .15 MA for a status High (1). Most of our jobs used I1 thru I6, so this was not a problem, til now. As I stated above, we are not using shielded wire. The wire run must be picking up enough stray voltage/current to trip the new lower current input threshold. Thanks for looking. Ken
n3qik Posts: 12 Rating: (3)
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6/12/2009 10:02 AM	Rate (0)
LOGO!Barbarian Posts: 173 Rating: (95)	Hi all. The inputs mentioned on the 0BA6 have been changed for the 12/24 RC & RCo, as well as for the LOGO! 24 & 24o. I1 & I2 are now also optional 0..10V analog signal inputs (as AI3 & AI4 respectively) on these models and so the input current 'sensitivity' was probably changed for the A-to-D converter. I3, I4, I5, I6 also changed slightly on these new verisons to be High Speed Counters up to 5kHz each. Before it was only I5 & I6. So I also suspect that the sensitivity is different. The current 'sensitivity' before it detects a status HI or LO is more determined by the voltage than the current. This example shows clearly the need for good quality (low resistance) shielded cable in an industrial environment and how over longer distances (passing other swithing devices) it is so easy to get unwanted signals! Glad that there is more understanding and a workable solution!
LOGO!Barbarian Posts: 173 Rating: (95)	Last edited by: LOGO!Barbarian at: 6/12/2009 10:04 AM
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6/12/2009 5:27 PM	Rate (0)
rosa Posts: 191 Rating: (58)	Hi!! a possible solution is to add a relay at the input... electrical noise wont be able to turn on the relay, but a real ON signal will.. this justone opton on how to avoid the problem.. ¿¿ does anyone else suggest another solution ?? ROSA
rosa Posts: 191 Rating: (58)
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6/12/2009 5:56 PM	Rate (0)
playerslight Posts: 1064 Rating: (72)	anothger option would be add a pull down resistor to keep the signal low .
playerslight Posts: 1064 Rating: (72)
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6/13/2009 12:16 AM	Rate (1)
n3qik Posts: 12 Rating: (3)	Update: Shielded wire is a must now. Did a quick test today. Layed out 100 feet of 18 AWG lamp wire, laying just on the shop floor. This would store just enough charge to trip inputs 1 and 2, but not 3 thru 6. Like playerslight stated, one might add a pull down resistor. We will be using 4700 ohm resistors. This gives us about the same input impedance as the other inputs. I got 50 of these things in the shop right now, was in panic mode last two days. But the fix is $ .04, so it will be a good weekend after all.
n3qik Posts: 12 Rating: (3)
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8/28/2009 2:46 PM	Rate (0)
Ron1172 Posts: 3 Rating: (0)	Using a relay would be much better. I hope it works out for you.
Ron1172 Posts: 3 Rating: (0)
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3/10/2014 3:59 PM	Rate (0)
kjm_mts Posts: 1 Rating: (0)	I had a client that was using Honeywell HOA0892-T55 transmissive, (slotted photointerrupters) on the 8 inputs of the logo. The output phototransistors are capable of sinking about 1.4ma and vary somewhat. Using 8.2K Ohm pullups on I1,I2,I7,and I8 worked very well with resulting PLC input voltages of 0.26V for 0 logic level, and 10.8V for a 1 logic level. However, the High Speed inputs, I3-I6 the sensor output could not achieve a logic 1state higher than about 5.5V. This is as if the OBA6 has an input resistor of about 5860 Ohms to common, or the equivalent load of this impedance. Since my sensor signals are low speed by nature, a simple quad opamp (LM324) with a filter on each input for RF and noise, and 100 Ohms in series with each output to I3-6 solved the issue. The manual does show the input current differences by pin, but in another area it is easily interpreted that the input impedances are about 80K Ohms per input (72K Ohms if such input is enables as an analog input) and my preference would be to show the input loading values in that section as well. In this way someone having to reconcile resistor values to achieve PLC input logic levels would have a more direct path to follow.
kjm_mts Posts: 1 Rating: (0)	Last edited by: kjm_mts at: 3/10/2014 4:02 PM
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