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S7400 or PCS 7 for my plant

Created by: nrout at: 5/12/2007 6:35 AM (9 Replies)

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5/12/2007 6:35 AM	Rate (0)
nrout Posts: 6 Rating: (0)	Dear All Please help me decide whether to go for S7-400+WinCC or PCS-7 based industrical control system. My organisation is installing a Hot Dip Metal Coating line which will come in to operation in 2009. As far as features are concerned I was confortable with S7-400 + WinCC. Is there a threat that S7-400 will be obsolete in coming say 10 years and do we therefore need to think about PCS 7 ? Thanks in advance for all your help. Cheers! nrout
nrout Posts: 6 Rating: (0)
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5/12/2007 8:10 AM	Rate (0)
umencho Grandmaster Joined: 3/21/2006 Last visit: 10/16/2025 Posts: 10239 Rating: (1183)	Hi nrout, 1 vote for PCS7. Best regards umencho

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5/12/2007 9:29 AM	Rate (0)
Nemo Posts: 3149 Rating: (172)	Hi well, at the moment I don´t get your problem. You should decide about necessary functionalities when planning a plant. PCS7 is offering many additional features. I have nothing heard about finishing the S7-400 series in some years. In PCS7 are Standard S7-400 CPUs used as you would buy in your WinCC solution... nemo
Nemo Posts: 3149 Rating: (172)
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5/12/2007 9:47 AM	Rate (0)
nrout Posts: 6 Rating: (0)	Thank you very much Nemo. I also thought that way, and as I said my functionalities are well met by S7-400 and WinCC. If there is no threat that S7-400 or WinCC is getting replaced in some years I am comfortable with S7-400! Thankyou
nrout Posts: 6 Rating: (0)
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5/12/2007 9:58 AM	Rate (0)
nrout Posts: 6 Rating: (0)	Thx buddy
nrout Posts: 6 Rating: (0)
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5/12/2007 7:48 PM	Rate (0)
Late Platinum Member Joined: 1/7/2006 Last visit: 5/11/2025 Posts: 2705 Rating: (321)	Hi, The choice is not to be taken on the hardware, this because PCS7 is defined on the same hardware.... PCS7 is an complete system, and have many options you might use when you need them. WinCC + S7-400 + STEP7 + CFC + SCL + SFC makes PCS7 with several option packages. So if you wish to live some easier, then please choose for PCS7 version 7. I think for the Indusstry you are mentioning the right choice might be PCS7.
	I hope that the answer will help, if you have still questions, don't hesitate to ask me. All the best, Late Never say never, think in solutions, not in trouble......
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5/15/2007 10:30 AM	Rate (0)
Willies Posts: 23 Rating: (2)	From my point view , if your are the system owner will maintain the system in the future , I will recommand to used the PCS7 . As PCS7 already solved the interface in each software package , CFC,SFC,Wincc,Net.... That will save you many time for it .special if the project is a large plan you will feed the efficiency . FLY
Willies Posts: 23 Rating: (2)
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5/25/2007 1:50 AM	Rate (0)
Dorftrottel? Silver Member Joined: 8/10/2006 Last visit: 12/4/2025 Posts: 298 Rating: (29)	I vote PCS7! While I've always thought the tight integration between PCS7 Programming System and HMI offered a great deal of efficiency, I was never able to quantify how much. I do a lot of work at a plant where they have two (almost) identical systems, one built in Contrologix with Cimpilcity, one using PCS7 and S7-400. Both are redundant systems. I spent a week working with the programmer who did both systems. He said everything he did on the Control Logix+Cimplicity system, he could do in 80% less time time using PCS7+S7-400. I told him I couldn't believe it -- not that much difference! -- then I saw the cost sheets for both systems. Having worked beside him, I know he is a very sharp programmer. Jim

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5/25/2007 8:04 AM	Rate (0)
Dec Gold Expert Joined: 5/19/2006 Last visit: 10/13/2025 Posts: 550 Rating: (107)	Here is my point: Everything comes down to dollars and cents and total cost of ownerships; If you need batch processing, advanced sequential flowchart programming (SFC) tightly integrated with control flowchart programming (CFC) and a rich sets of ready made process control library blocks and faceplates then PCS7 is the way to go. In general, major components like STEP7 (ES), WinCC (OS), are the same. Don't forget the AS;the S7-400 is the only hardware platform available for PCS7. You will have hard time integrating S7-300 or other PLCs & I/O intoPCS7 picture (no PMC alarm blocks, no Driver CFCsupport etc). If you don't need the above requirements you will end-up spending 2/3 times more money and time by using PCS7compare tostandard automation components (STEP7, SCL, CFC, WinCC etc). Plus you are locked to a framework very sensitive to upgrades outside of PCS7 upgrade schema. SUS for PCS7 are at the same magnitude of cost compare to standard automation components SUS. In my opinion if you are not a BASF chemical plant with a Siemens CCnext door ready to make a PM Add-on for youor something similar in the Process control business the optimum solution will be to start with discrete automation components. The TIA integration (Mapper AS/OS Transferis TIA all about) can be accomplice perfect with STEP7 & co./WinCC & add-on @ 1/2 cost of PCS7. I love PCS7 and I am implementing/using itfrom version 4.0 to 7.0 from all the angles; marketing/sales/engineering for Siemens STC, consulting, and software developmentto end user position. Dec
	Last edited by: Dec at: 25.05.2007 08:18 Last edited by: Dec at: 25.05.2007 08:12 Last edited by: Dec at: 25.05.2007 08:08
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5/26/2007 7:00 PM	Rate (1)
Krish Gold Member Joined: 5/24/2007 Last visit: 12/19/2025 Posts: 284 Rating: (27)	Well, WinCC+S7 along with AS-OS compiler, CFC, SCL compiler etc comesvery close to PCS7. What additionally PCS7 has is the heirarchial structure which makes the system function distribution very easy. Definitely both configuration will exist in the market because SIEMENS will have to ensure that people can useS7 PLCs with other HMIs and WinCC with other PLCs. From my experience the following are some of the pros and cons. Pros 1. Heirarchial Structure makes it very easy to handle in terms of different plant groups particularly a steel plant or mill which has various plant section independetly operating. 2. Very tight integration with HMI makes modifications like additions of another motor or valve very easy to implement. 3. A lof of Siemens standards functions which are tried and tested (in the beginnning we all sweated and cursed as their anything but tried and tested...but I guess with all feedbacks..yells and curses...they are now ok). 4. For timers CFC is pretty cool way to get into programming. Even non programmers cn understand a bit of it. Any further questions to make your decision you can always ask. Cons 1. The general size of the program bloats up. Unless proper care is taken (simple things..but) you can land up with a very slow system. 2. You land up paying a higher cost for licenses. when you have less than 16k tags both are more or less ok. But then on PCS7 has some additional cost. 3. Licensing wise you have to watch for yet another parameter called Process Objects. 4. For pure PLC programmers , CFC programming is not likeable programming style (something like how C++ guys sneer at VB guys). You see it not much. My advice would be to have a look around in your plant resources. Doyou have more classical S7 experienced guys? Do the other shops in your company also use the same. Tends to make movement of engineers back and forth easier.

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