6/27/2009 12:03 PM | |
Posts: 160 Rating: (16) |
Couldn't you just use a Sidguard follower relay to achieve this. |
6/27/2009 7:12 PM | |
Joined: 3/24/2009 Last visit: 7/9/2024 Posts: 535 Rating: (112) |
Dear Eastern, which SIL-level / safety-category do you have to reach with your system? Additional relays might reduce the reachable level/category. I think there is a ET200S-relay-F-DO-module (1F-RO), but unfortunately I don't have the MLFB at the moment. Have a look at products.ppt Regards, yy1 |
Last edited by: yy1 at: 6/27/2009 11:13 PM |
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6/28/2009 6:44 AM | |
Posts: 557 Rating: (64) |
hI I am using a sil 3 system,i know about ET 200 S F RO module, i am looking a this type of module for ET 200 M module...... regards |
6/30/2009 2:39 AM | |
Posts: 73 Rating: (20) |
Hello yy1, I do not know your application so I can only generalize. Generally speaking for machine safety wire break on an output is not a safety issue as the load will be disconnected from the output. This in turn will stop the hazard. What is important for relay outputs is that you monitor the status of the relay [welded contacts]. This is done using a Normally Closed contact which is mechanically connected to the Normally Open safety contacts. The F-RO has an internal Normally Closed contact which is connected to an internal input within the FRO. This non safe input can be used as the readback status for the Normally Open contacts in the ladder logic program.If the FRO cannot be used you can also use the 3TK2830 or two contactors in series. If you wish to use contactors a good solution is the SUVA certified Siemens Sirius components. See the examples http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/20810941/136000 Where wire break for machine applications may be important is in muting light curtains. Many people install a muting lamp to tell people that the muting is enabled and therefore the light curtain is not active. If the muting lamp burns out then there is nothing to tell workers in the area that the light curtain is muted. Therefore an FDO with wire break detection enabled can be used to detect the burned out lamp. Wire breakalso depends on the type of application. I have heard of energize to trip systems where I believe monitoring would be important as well.[I have not worked on such a thing]. |
Last edited by: Safety1 at: 6/30/2009 2:41 AM |
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6/30/2009 4:57 PM | |
Posts: 557 Rating: (64) |
hi Safety1 i want to know the various wiring posibily which are required for fail safe system according to SIL level please explain more or if have any document......... following things are need to explain 1) Line monitoring facility 2) short circut facility 3) open circut facility what is a difference between sil2 Digital input module & standard digital input module...what is sil1..... regards |
Last edited by: Eastern at: 6/30/2009 5:05 PM |
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6/30/2009 5:38 PM | |
Joined: 3/24/2009 Last visit: 7/9/2024 Posts: 535 Rating: (112) |
Dear Eastern, dear Safety1, perhaps this link can help you (here is also a defination of SIL-levels in chapter 9.2). failsafe module communicate with the CPU using the PROFIsafe-protocol (in contrast to standard-modules) and have additional safety-checks. Regards, yy1 |
6/30/2009 10:04 PM | |
Posts: 73 Rating: (20) |
Hello, I do not know what standard you use to design your application therefore I am talking about IEC62061 in the info below. The ET200S Safety Modules manual section 7 shows the wiring for different applications. And7 - 36 shows the diagnostic functions the FDO module supports. I cannot tell you how to achieve the SIL as it all comes down to wiring based on the manualand calculation. For IEC62061 part of the calculation is based on DC diagnostic coverage, T1 and T2. These are times which only the designer knows. The standards deal with two different types of devices simple devices and complex devices. An eletromechnical device such as a contactor would be considered a simple device while a safety relay, safety PLC, [anything with a micro processor] would be considered a complex device. Simple devices because they are electromechanical also have a B10 value and %dangerous failures which are also required to calculate the SIL based on IEC62061. The DC diagnostic coverage for an application depends on the wiring and other points this is why the user calculating the SIL uses a table in the IEC62061 standard to determine the DC based on questions. Each question has a certain value. Each Safety Function [eg when lid opens mixer must stop]is broken down into subsystems and subsystem elements. Each subsystem would havea certain PFHd. The overall PFHd of the safety function would then determine whether your design is within the tolerance band for SIL3. This is way too much info for this forum. If you are using the IEC62061 standard then please read the application example http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/23996473 This link shows the PFHd for all S7 Distributed Safety I/O and FCPUs http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/22014519 Please also look at the SET safety evaluation tool at www.siemens.com/safety-evaluation-tool There is also a SET forum in the General Conferences section of this webpage Sorry I cannot be of more help.Good Luck |
Last edited by: Safety1 at: 7/2/2009 3:02 PM |
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7/8/2009 8:30 AM | |
Posts: 557 Rating: (64) |
HI mumbles thank a lot....... i am using a this 6ES7 326-2BF01-0AB0 module....input side 24v & field side is 110 v ac so can you please tell me the order no of safety relay for this......... regards |
7/9/2009 7:34 AM | |
Joined: 3/24/2009 Last visit: 7/9/2024 Posts: 535 Rating: (112) |
Dear Eastern, you can find information on the safety relay here. Available order-numbers are here. Regardy, yy1 |
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