Skip to Content

support.automation.siemens.com | Technical Forum | Saturday, January 16, 2021 4:11:12 AM

Print

NCA Spindle drive alarm

Created by: Kallas at: 4/9/2020 10:42 AM (26 Replies)

Rating (2)

Thanks 1

Result pages:: |; 1 | 2; |

27 Entries

Entries per page: 10 | 20 | all

4/9/2020 10:42 AM	Rate (0)
Kallas Regular Member Joined: 3/25/2020 Last visit: 7/13/2020 Posts: 28 Rating: (0)	Hello. I have a problem with alarm 39-137. An alarm is being posted by the spindle axis drive in APC rack 3. (Siemens 611 node address 5).{SPINDLE3ZSW1BIT 3}{SZ_FAULTPRES}is ON. Remedy> Clear the alarm .Press the R F iluminated LED reset button{just below the X411 connector} on the drive.The LCD display should change to ____run and the green RUN LED{just below the X423 connector} should come on. Clear the APC Rack Communication and Encoder Error alarms that will have been posted on the control.I have done all this but again the problem exists and does not return to ___run. Βefore that fault many years now we had a problem with the spindle when it was spinning at over 1200 rpm and we wanted to stop it from spinning it was falling and I had to turn it off from the main supply and turn it on again. Οtherwise I had to reduce the speed on MDI gradually by 200 rpm until it reached below 1200 rpm to press the stop. If that helps for more complete conclusion. Please help me. Attachment IMG_1714.JPG (24 Downloads)
	Last edited by: Kallas at: 04/09/2020 10:48:04
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/9/2020 11:41 PM	Rate (1)
nulizhang Platinum Expert Joined: 10/17/2007 Last visit: 1/14/2021 Posts: 2408 Rating: (183)	Can you tell here what kind of CNC or PLC system of your machine I think the drive is 611U? You post picture for drive error,I did not see error 39. But I only see error 814 Motor temperature, pre-alarm Cause 1. The motor temperature is sensed using a temperature sensor (KTY84 or PTC) and evaluated in the drive. This alarm is output if the motor temperature reaches the alarm threshold, motor overtemperature (P1602 for KTY or the PTC-specific switching temperature for PTC). 2. The thermal motor model has reached the thermal motor utilization alarm threshold P1269. Remedy -- Avoid many acceleration and braking operations which follow one another quickly. -- Check whether the motor output is sufficient for the drive, otherwise use a more powerful motor, possibly together with a higher-rating power section. -- Check the motor data. It is possible that the motor current is too high as a result of incorrect motor data. -- Check the thermal motor utilization alarm threshold P1269. -- Temperature sensor monitoring. -- Check the motor fan.
	Please Help me to understand your question!
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/10/2020 8:09 AM	Rate (0)
Kallas Regular Member Joined: 3/25/2020 Last visit: 7/13/2020 Posts: 28 Rating: (0)	Thanks for your quick reply. We have a c.n.c 3 axis machine Cincinnati arrow 2, with siemens acramatic control 2100,vmc 4.13 kk 010707 with service pack 6. Control serial number is: 51-A21001Y-09751. . The alarm being posted on the screen is 39-137 NCA spindle drive alarm when i try to release the red power button. About the drive i am not sure what it is,can you let me know were to check? Βefore that fault many years now we had a problem with the spindle when it was spinning at over 1200 rpm and we wanted to stop it from spinning it was falling and I had to turn it off from the main supply and turn it on again. Οtherwise I had to reduce the speed on MDI gradually by 200 rpm until it reached below 1200 rpm to press the stop. We worked this way for many years since we couldn't find the right technician to fix it for us. A few days ago I thought about looking at it and taking it out and putting in the cables just in case that it doesn't make any good contact. since then I have the error that I describe to you above and I can't even work as I did. Can i send you pictures from the motor? Attachment IMG_1772.jpg (15 Downloads)

Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/10/2020 8:49 AM	Rate (0)
Kallas Regular Member Joined: 3/25/2020 Last visit: 7/13/2020 Posts: 28 Rating: (0)	The old problem was something about the brake from the spindle i think. It could not stop softly over 1200rpm and the Z axis was falling abruptly when that happens. But now we have also the problem which I described to you above. Attachment IMG_1808.jpg (13 Downloads)

Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/11/2020 3:32 PM	Rate (1)
saschko Regular Member Joined: 11/26/2006 Last visit: 11/2/2020 Posts: 26 Rating: (5)	Simodrive.Alarm 504 Cause The encoder signal level is too low, faulted (incorrect shielding), or the cable breakage monitoring function has responded. 1. Because of the previous alarm- A814 , strongly recomend to check cable between motor and drive. Especially connector on the motor side. 2. What is the type of spindle motor? It is Siemens made or ?Can You post picture of the nameplate? ..if it is Siemens made,encoder may be is ERN1381 from Heidenhain. 3. Do You remeber what is displayed on the Simodrive if You stop the Spindle directly from 2000 rpm to zero ?
	Last edited by: saschko at: 04/11/2020 15:38:08
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/12/2020 12:52 PM	Rate (0)
Kallas Regular Member Joined: 3/25/2020 Last visit: 7/13/2020 Posts: 28 Rating: (0)	Thank you for your useful comments. In the atachment is the type of spindle motor. Attachment IMG_1763.jpg (10 Downloads)

Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/12/2020 12:56 PM	Rate (0)
Kallas Regular Member Joined: 3/25/2020 Last visit: 7/13/2020 Posts: 28 Rating: (0)	This is the cable between motor and drive. Attachment IMG_1710.jpg (9 Downloads)

Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/12/2020 1:00 PM	Rate (0)
Kallas Regular Member Joined: 3/25/2020 Last visit: 7/13/2020 Posts: 28 Rating: (0)	This is the first alarm on the screen when the Spindle stops directly from 2000 rpm to zero. I dont remember what was displayed on the Simodrive. I will search my files and i will let tou know. Attachment ΣΦΑΛΜΑ.jpg (11 Downloads)

Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/12/2020 1:01 PM	Rate (0)
Kallas Regular Member Joined: 3/25/2020 Last visit: 7/13/2020 Posts: 28 Rating: (0)	and then this. Attachment ΣΦΑΛΜΑ2.jpg (8 Downloads)

Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/13/2020 9:47 AM	Rate (0)
Kallas Regular Member Joined: 3/25/2020 Last visit: 7/13/2020 Posts: 28 Rating: (0)	Hello, I took the cable out of the motor and from the driver and inside it had these labels if they tell you something to help me choose and replace the same type of cable. Attachment IMG_1809.jpg (9 Downloads)

Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/13/2020 12:52 PM	Rate (0)
Ekalavya Platinum Expert Joined: 8/4/2009 Last visit: 5/31/2020 Posts: 2964 Rating: (463)	Hello, How is the spindle motor is mounted? can it be decoupled from the mechanical and check in JOG mode? how it is behaving? Also in machine off condition remove the spindle encoder cable and just see the spindle round connector you can see male pins by any chance pins are bent/ damaged? Regards, Prakash Kallas Thanks for your quick reply. We have a c.n.c 3 axis machine Cincinnati arrow 2, with siemens acramatic control 2100,vmc 4.13 kk 010707 with service pack 6. Control serial number is: 51-A21001Y-09751. . The alarm being posted on the screen is 39-137 NCA spindle drive alarm when i try to release the red power button. About the drive i am not sure what it is,can you let me know were to check? Βefore that fault many years now we had a problem with the spindle when it was spinning at over 1200 rpm and we wanted to stop it from spinning it was falling and I had to turn it off from the main supply and turn it on again. Οtherwise I had to reduce the speed on MDI gradually by 200 rpm until it reached below 1200 rpm to press the stop. We worked this way for many years since we couldn't find the right technician to fix it for us. A few days ago I thought about looking at it and taking it out and putting in the cables just in case that it doesn't make any good contact. since then I have the error that I describe to you above and I can't even work as I did. Can i send you pictures from the motor?
	With Best Regards, Ekalavya
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/13/2020 1:43 PM	Rate (0)
Kallas Regular Member Joined: 3/25/2020 Last visit: 7/13/2020 Posts: 28 Rating: (0)	I removed the motor cable and all pins looks good. About the spindle motor mounted do you mean by belt or?Do i have to remove the belt?And how can i check it in JOG mode? Also when i am going to take home position of the axis at first displays the (attachment)message on the screen. After I move the table with handweel and it goes to take home position it takes out the other two alarms which I describe in the messages above. Kind regards. Attachment IMG_1785.jpg (6 Downloads)

Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/13/2020 2:09 PM	Rate (0)
Ekalavya Platinum Expert Joined: 8/4/2009 Last visit: 5/31/2020 Posts: 2964 Rating: (463)	Hello, I mean the belt / coupling which is connected to the spindle? whether it is possible to decouple it and try running it in JOG? p may be you need to do re referencing it. Kallas I removed the motor cable and all pins looks good. About the spindle motor mounted do you mean by belt or?Do i have to remove the belt?And how can i check it in JOG mode? Also when i am going to take home position of the axis at first displays the (attachment)message on the screen. After I move the table with handweel and it goes to take home position it takes out the other two alarms which I describe in the messages above. Kind regards.
	With Best Regards, Ekalavya
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/13/2020 2:51 PM	Rate (0)
Kallas Regular Member Joined: 3/25/2020 Last visit: 7/13/2020 Posts: 28 Rating: (0)	I ll try to do this. Am i gona be able to operate it in jog mode? Cause after the first spindle drive alarm it shows up another alarm.(attachment) and wont let me do nothing. Attachment IMG_1878.jpg (4 Downloads)

Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/13/2020 3:23 PM	Rate (0)
Ekalavya Platinum Expert Joined: 8/4/2009 Last visit: 5/31/2020 Posts: 2964 Rating: (463)	Hello, can you share us the error photo observed on IR module and on LT module? may be there could be interlocks are provide by machine manufacturer. Kallas I ll try to do this. Am i gona be able to operate it in jog mode? Cause after the first spindle drive alarm it shows up another alarm.(attachment) and wont let me do nothing. Regards, Prakash
	With Best Regards, Ekalavya
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/14/2020 9:39 AM	Rate (0)
Kallas Regular Member Joined: 3/25/2020 Last visit: 7/13/2020 Posts: 28 Rating: (0)	Attachment IMG_1891.jpg (16 Downloads)

Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/15/2020 2:57 PM	Rate (0)
Ekalavya Platinum Expert Joined: 8/4/2009 Last visit: 5/31/2020 Posts: 2964 Rating: (463)	Hello, Looking at attached picture it indicate that IR module is not in the enable condition as green led is glowing may be because of 814 alarm on both the cards. and alarm 814 the motor temperature is sensed using a temperature sensor (KTY84 or PTC) and evaluated in the drive. This alarm is output if the motor temperature reaches the alarm threshold, motor over temperature as i see this alarms are coming 2x Modules. I suggest please check the motor temperature parameter i believe parameter 1608 how much it is showing ? normally it should show temperature values ... Please observe on the flat ribbon cable ie from IR and LT. Once you remove this please see any pins are damaged? also similar observe on the control card too. PS: don't remove the encoder cable in ON condition !!!! . please remove only in off condition only. or you if have the spare encoder cable / control card replace and check, if you are replacing the control please ensure you have the proper drive backup for recommissioning it. Hope you can resolve your problem. Regards, Prakash
	With Best Regards, Ekalavya
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/16/2020 8:45 AM	Rate (0)
Kallas Regular Member Joined: 3/25/2020 Last visit: 7/13/2020 Posts: 28 Rating: (0)	Thank you. How can i check the motor temperature parameter 1608? With SimoCom U? Is it available for download? In the attachment you can see when i release the red power button and when i forced and press the green power button it turns the led light into enable condition but still not armed. I'm a little confused. Attachment IMG_1959.jpg (6 Downloads)
	Last edited by: Kallas at: 04/16/2020 08:45:50
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/16/2020 9:12 AM	Rate (0)
Kallas Regular Member Joined: 3/25/2020 Last visit: 7/13/2020 Posts: 28 Rating: (0)	Here i forced the green power button and let me procced to align axis but then appears o fault simodrive 611. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ4Ls33sW4M

Suggestion To thank Quote Answer

4/16/2020 12:23 PM	Rate (0)
Ekalavya Platinum Expert Joined: 8/4/2009 Last visit: 5/31/2020 Posts: 2964 Rating: (463)	Hello, Please check this parameter 0603 -Motor temperature and 1608- Fixed temperature Simocom-U software is available in this link. https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/us/en/view/103498340 but attached photo i see the alarm 504... please check the encoder cable and control card, if you have the spare please replace and check. Regards, Prakash
	With Best Regards, Ekalavya
Suggestion To thank Quote Answer