8/17/2007 4:21 PM | |
Joined: 1/5/2007 Last visit: 4/7/2023 Posts: 1690 Rating: (580) |
Hello, use an amplifier immediatebetween an analoge input (ai) and an output (ax). For the ampilfier is ax = ai * GAIN + Offset For you parameter-translation ai 1= 1 V (= 100 LOGO-internal units) --> Ax1 = 0 F and ai2 = 5 V (= 500 LOGO-internal units) --> Ax2 = 135 F
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8/17/2007 4:49 PM | |
Posts: 30 Rating: (2) |
Thanks for the response Betel! |
8/19/2007 10:54 PM | |
Joined: 1/5/2007 Last visit: 4/7/2023 Posts: 1690 Rating: (580) |
Hello, Ax = Ai * GAIN + OFFSET
Ai,maximum * Ax,minimum and
The analog functions of the LOGO can at entrance values Ai and at output values Ax (= "current values Ax") only work with integer values, so that a roundoff is carried out where appropriate (cf. LOGO handbook). In this case the integervalue x becomes from x,0 to x,4 and from x,5 to x,9 the result is the integer VALUE x+1!!! At the example 5/4=1,25: Ai = 5; GAIN = 0,25; OFFSET = 0 shows a value of Ax = 1! In order to be able to announce also decimal values now, in the corresponding functions exclusively for the representation in message texts the number of decimal places can be defined (n = 1 to 5). From for example 12345 as current value of an analog amplifier is indicated then therefore with 2 decimal places 123,45. Every decimal place is in this case then a multiplication of the actual value by the factor 1/10 = 0,1 equally significant, something with a concrete "circuit" is to be considered (for example through preceding multiplication by n * 10 by means of n of further in series pre-connected amplifier functions). Simultaneously the absolute range of values of the advertisement keeps on being located so: 32767 --> 327,67 !!! Unfortunately neither the "number of the decimal places" nor the parameter "Gain" (the corresponding analog functions) through a reference to a value of another function can be defined! Considering this state of affairs makes itself now with values of Ai not too big also to the rounding errors reduce or exclude. At the example with Ai = 5 is let, through regulation of 2 decimal places (in the 2. amplifier for the advertisement) and the use of 2 (or more, because -10,00 < GAIN < 10,00)amplifier functions switched in series with values adjusted on each other for GAIN, to avoid the rounding error (= through multiplication of Ai by 100): GAIN_amplifier1 = 10, GAIN_amplifier2 = 2,5 (Instead of 0,25 and a further pre-connected amplifier with GAIN=10). All further decimal places are always 0 at GAIN = 0,25 and integer Ai [On the other hand at a GAIN of 0,40 an advertisement with 1 decimal place is sufficient (for example 7 * 0,4 = 2,1), all further decimal places are always 0 at GAIN = 0,40 and integer Ai (in particular also the 2nd decimal place that can be renounced therefore in the advertisement and the calculation!).] During the preselection for the sensor type attention is to be paid to following:
The settings "0..10V" and "no sensor" show also identical output values Ax with handicap of identical values for Gain and offset at identical inputs Ai. At "0..10V" the specifications of the "measuring range" are helpful, when a sensor is supposed to be evaluated 0 to 10 V. In this case the signal voltages become 0 to 10 V "translates into the range of values 0 to 1000, if Gain = 1 and offset = 0 (cf. for this purpose handbook)! If using now 2 decimal places (for the advertisement), these values 0 to 1000 displayed as 0,00 to 10,00 are indicated then (what corresponds to the input signals in V). Ergo means every decimal place a division of the bloom output value Ax/10 (only for the advertisement, otherwise knows the LOGO only integers!) Best regards AttachmentCalculation_of_GAIN_and_OFFSET_for_analoge_amplifier_V2.zip (1455 Downloads) |
Last edited by: Betel at: 5/26/2011 11:13 PMadd attachment with EXCEL-files ==> Meine TAG-Listen: "deut." |
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8/21/2007 8:51 PM | |
Joined: 1/5/2007 Last visit: 4/7/2023 Posts: 1690 Rating: (580) |
Hello Rosa, ido not understand your comment and neither, that you missing 1 V to 5 V. Ok, the equations are placed according to the specifications in the handbook (4.3.6) and in the 1st paragraph of my executions. Therefore they require the values Ai in LOGO units, that is in the range of -32767 to 32767 and in the special case, when the entrance values of analog hardware entrance come, 0 to 1000. From volts no speech is there. According to handbook input voltages of 0,00 V over... 5,12 V to... 10,00 V from the unit "analog input" are translated into integer values of 0 over... 512 to... 1000 (Format xx,nn) and these are set into the equation Ax = Ai * GAIN + OFFSET for use!. Accordingly must therefore all values of Ai converted from volts (that is Ai multiplied by 100) into LOGO-Units before they can be used to the calculation by OFFSET and GAIN into the indicated equations (example to Controls_Guy matches). If one considers this, when a value or a range (linear) are supposed to be transformed in a wanted value or range of values, the indicated equations are to be used universally. Further considerations and tables are not necessary! You need only one (for e point) or two (fur e range) pairs of korresponding values. Best regards Betel |
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4/7/2008 9:34 PM | |
Posts: 191 Rating: (58) |
Please post your program.. ROSA |
4/7/2008 9:42 PM | |
Joined: 1/5/2007 Last visit: 4/7/2023 Posts: 1690 Rating: (580) |
Hello fantas, look at the example into the attachment, I think that is what you need. The EXCEL-file contains the values you tell us and the result to use in a amplifiver... remember: to upload a fil it must be zipped or remame to *.zip... Best regards Betel AttachmentExample_degree.zip (1796 Downloads) |
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This contribution was helpful to1 thankful Users |
4/8/2008 2:10 AM | |
Posts: 8 Rating: (0) |
I was trying to view the file but keep getting a message thet logosoft comfort cannot view files of this type.Dont know what to do next ? |
4/8/2008 2:32 AM | |
Posts: 8 Rating: (0) |
let me try uploading the file. By the way thanks for the help and effort from all of you. By the way this was done by trial and error so I am unable to give an explanation sorry. AttachmentCircuit Diagram21.zip (531 Downloads) |
4/8/2008 3:34 AM | |
Posts: 8 Rating: (0) |
I got rid of the analog multiplexer. and downloaded the program to the logo.I'll do tests with the sensor later. Thanks ! |
4/11/2008 9:40 PM | |
Joined: 1/5/2007 Last visit: 4/7/2023 Posts: 1690 Rating: (580) |
Hello fantas, |
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4/16/2008 9:48 PM | |
Joined: 1/5/2007 Last visit: 4/7/2023 Posts: 1690 Rating: (580) |
Hi fantas, the LOGO! can filter analoge signals with a circuit - how can yu find in my first work of this at: Filters (like bessel or butterworth) Newer koncepts to calculate mean values of 4 and 8 analog values with a new part to memory values (mux+amplifier) and a efficient medode to add values (with a lowwer number of blocks)you can find at the german part at: Konzept + Schaltung einer Mischeransteuerung (3-Punkt-Regelung) specialy at the attachment FORUM_witterungsgeführte_Mischersteuerung (1c).zip. A modified version of the low-pass-filter technique of a analoge value you can find at: DEMO_temperaturabhängiger_Analogausgang_V2Text.zip I hope this can help you... |
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4/7/2009 12:09 AM | |
Posts: 4 Rating: (0) |
Hello, I am new in Logo analoge programming. I have here some CO2 sensor with 0,5-4VDC output, i want that convert in 4-20mA via Logo. So on Logo AM2 AQ it must 4-20mA = 0-1000 in Logo value I have try to programming for few days, but not able to do right. I have try to use follow Gain and Offset for my input: Gain: 2,86 Offset: -143 But when i test it with real voltage on my input, i don't get right reading in the Logo and on my AQ output. I have also use the exampel of Betel for "Example_degree" (Schaltplan2.lsc) and of Rosa (ec fan control.lsc), but they use "Analog MUX" function, i have here a LOGO! 12/24RC version4 0BA4 for testing and version4 don't support "Analog MUX" Before i buy Logo version6 0BA6, i want be sure that it will work for my project. Is possibel to use example from Betel or Rosa in Logo version4? Any other suggestions or idea? Thanks in advanced for help. Best regards, |
4/7/2009 9:27 PM | |
Joined: 1/5/2007 Last visit: 4/7/2023 Posts: 1690 Rating: (580)
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Hi BellLogo, i think your project can not solve with LOGO!, because the AQ2 module (witch you can by now) is only build to output 0 to 10 V, butnot mA. Siemenswill build a new one with volt and mA output, but i do not know the time... All circuits with use a multiplexer can only use with LOGO! modules series 0BA5 and 0BA6! If available a new AQ2 with mA, then you need one amplifiverto translate your 0,5 V..4,0 V input to a 4..20 mA output: 0,5 V means 50 LOGO! units, 4 V means400 LOGO! units, 4 mA means 200LOGO! units and 20mA means 1000LOGO! units --> GAIN = 2,28 and OFFSET = 86 The or one multiplexer directbefore the output should be inclouded to save the output and cut the analoge values to the range 0..1000 LOGO! units! Best regards Betel |
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4/7/2009 10:14 PM | |
Posts: 4 Rating: (0) |
Hello Betel, Thanks for your quick reply. I mean with expansion module 6ED1 055-1MM00-0BA1 (AM2 AQ) or this link. In the datasheet it say it had 4-20mA output. But i have here a AM2 AQ module with me (see photo attachment) and it had NO 4-20mA output. Do you have any explanation or maybe has AM2 4-20mA output? I don't have AM2, but i have also a AM2 PT100 and this has no 4-20mA output. I have also checked my Logo supplier site and it say also that AM2 have 4-20mA output. See here and here (there are different price for AM2, weird?) Maybe is this already 7th generation Logo? This is my supplier site text: ---------------------- Siemens LOGO! 7th Generation Seventh Generation LOGO!
I am confused. Any idea? Best regards, BelLogo |
Last edited by: BelLogo at: 4/7/2009 10:37 PMLast edited by: BelLogo at: 4/7/2009 10:34 PMupdate text |
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4/8/2009 9:40 PM | |
Joined: 1/5/2007 Last visit: 4/7/2023 Posts: 1690 Rating: (580)
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Hi BellLogo, sorry, but my infos at my last answer to you ar right. Look at the SIEMENS support page HERE- ther are the correct infos, but at some other Siemens product pages ther are wrong (or mixt) infos!? The old AM2 AQ module with the number 6ED1 055-1MM00-0BA0 can buy now, but it has only 0..10 V outputs The future AM2 AQ module with the number 6ED1 055-1MM00-0BA1 can´t by now (but perhaps in the summer of 2009?), but it has 0..10 V and 0(4)..20 mA outputs Best regards Betel |
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4/12/2009 3:21 AM | |
Posts: 4 Rating: (0) |
Hello Betel, I have already able to buy the last AM2 AQ 6ED1 055-1MM00-0BA1, i have here with me, see attachment photo. Siemens Belgium told me it exists already for a while. My program is also ready and tested, tanks for your assistance. I have 2 versions, 1 with 0-20mA and 1 with 4-20mA output It someone is interest in my program, it is in the attachment. I have some question. 1. Is it correct that input I7 and I8 correspond with AI1 and AI2, input I1 and I2 correspond with AI3 and AI3 in LOGO!Soft,independent from the parameter settings 2 or 4AIs (Menu > File > Properties > Parameter Tab). is this correct? 2. Do Logo support only 2 analog output? 3. What is the function of "Protection Active" in functions block settings screen? 4. Communication between the Logo Basic module, the expansion module and the TD screen is that RS232 or TTL? Best regards, BelLogo Attachment20090413 FORUM 05-4V to 04-20mA.zip (486 Downloads) |
Last edited by: BelLogo at: 4/13/2009 9:53 AMLast edited by: BelLogo at: 4/13/2009 2:17 AMLast edited by: BelLogo at: 4/12/2009 4:39 PM |
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4/13/2009 11:00 PM | |
Joined: 1/5/2007 Last visit: 4/7/2023 Posts: 1690 Rating: (580)
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Hi BellLogo, here my short answers: to 1: Yes, that is this correct. to 2: Yes, Logo supports only 2 analog outputs. to 3: If the LOGO! is in the RUN modus (circuit works), then it is possible to change the parameters of function blocks: Handbook chapter 5..: " Parameter assignment refers to the configuration of the block parameters. You can set delay times for time functions, the switching times of timers, counter threshold values, the monitoring interval of an hours counter, the on and off thresholds of the trigger, and more. You can configure the parameters • In programming mode • In parameter assignment modeIn programming mode, the author of the circuit program also sets the parameters Parameter assignment mode allows the editing of parameters without having to modify the circuit program. This feature is available so that you can edit parameters without having to change to programming mode. The advantage: The circuit program remains protected, but can be adapted by the user to meet specific requirements. Selecting parameter assignment mode Press ESC to change from RUN to parameter assignment mode: To select a parameter: 1. On the parameter assignment menu, select ’Set Param’, use cursor-keys to select a block-number...." |
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4/14/2009 12:50 AM | |
Posts: 4 Rating: (0) |
Ok, thanks for your reply and assistance. |
4/23/2012 5:39 PM | |
Joined: 1/5/2007 Last visit: 4/7/2023 Posts: 1690 Rating: (580)
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Hello at all witch have questions to scaling input values, the newest version of my MS-EXCEL tool you find under the link Calculation of GAIN and OFFSET for analoge amplifier V3 Best regards Betel |
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4/3/2017 4:22 PM | |
Joined: 9/3/2014 Last visit: 3/13/2019 Posts: 4776 Rating: (123) |
New question published by mipege is split to a separate thread with the subject Gain and offset for scaling. Best regards |
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