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TIA Portal what MUST absolutely be improved!!!???

Created by: Lpmspa at: 6/14/2013 10:59 AM (108 Replies)

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6/14/2013 10:59 AM	Rate (8)
Lpmspa Advanced Member Joined: 2/8/2007 Last visit: 3/11/2021 Posts: 12 Rating: (9)	Hi, i work in the automation market sice 1994 i work with many software but NEVER i see a big f** sh* like TIA portal is completely unusable. I love siemens PLC. their functionality are excellent. The programming disastrous. I want to tell you with my post what MUST absolutely be improved. 1. latency - All software sleep i work like a sloth. 2 On-line: why i need 1 minuts before go on/line? (with ethernet cable)? 3. Multy Language -> import/export crash every time. Unbelive latency in manual editation 4. All keyboard shortcuts changed respect Step7 5. V12 not compatible with V11 6. V12 not have Safety 7.
	Last edited by: RangO at: 6/14/2013 11:01 AM
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6/14/2013 12:46 PM	Rate (0)
TomDeWou Platinum Expert Joined: 11/15/2006 Last visit: 3/30/2021 Posts: 1319 Rating: (163)	May I write down my opinion to yours? RangO 4. All keyboard shortcuts changed respect Step7 Not good, but: Should Siemens change it back? Then all customers using the 'new' shortcuts will claim they have been changed. So this will not change, I guess. RangO 5. V12 not compatible with V11 I think the upwards compatibility is fine, implementing a downwards compatibility will cause additional costs and time (which maybe should better be used to improve other things ) And V11 projects could be opened and edited in V12. RangO 6. V12 not have Safety => In my opinion (just) a matter of Time. So, at least I don't want to tell you that everything is fine, but I don't think that the TIA Portal is so bad.
	Last edited by: TomDeWou at: 6/14/2013 12:47 PM Have Fun! TomDeWou
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6/17/2013 11:42 AM	Rate (1)
Wesley_Bosch Advanced Member Joined: 10/7/2009 Last visit: 2/18/2021 Posts: 7 Rating: (1)	TomDeWou May I write down my opinion to yours? RangO 5. V12 not compatible with V11 I think the upwards compatibility is fine, implementing a downwards compatibility will cause additional costs and time (which maybe should better be used to improve other things ) And V11 projects could be opened and edited in V12. The upwards compatibility isn't fine at all. I can't use my V11 program in V12 without changing my software (any pointer doesn't work at the same way). Also protected block can't be compiled (with rebuilt all) without a password. (even when I open my V11 project in V12). Also the V12 software is very slow, online and offline like RangO said.

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6/17/2013 3:31 PM	Rate (0)
Bryll Bronze Member Joined: 11/15/2011 Last visit: 3/24/2021 Posts: 168 Rating: (3)	RangO Hi, i work in the automation market sice 1994 i work with many software but NEVER i see a big f** sh* like TIA portal is completely unusable. I love siemens PLC. their functionality are excellent. The programming disastrous. ......... I fully agree, but I have only worked with automation since 1999. The hardware is excellent, but the software is a piece of *** compared with other softwares.

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6/17/2013 4:47 PM	Rate (0)
Lpmspa Advanced Member Joined: 2/8/2007 Last visit: 3/11/2021 Posts: 12 Rating: (9)	TomDeWou May I write down my opinion to yours? RangO 4. All keyboard shortcuts changed respect Step7 Not good, but: Should Siemens change it back? Then all customers using the 'new' shortcuts will claim they have been changed. So this will not change, I guess. If there was the possibility to choose maybe ...... There are many ways to do things. Changing everything is paggiore, leave the user the ability to do as it is more convenient it would be desirable TomDeWou RangO 5. V12 not compatible with V11 I think the upwards compatibility is fine, implementing a downwards compatibility will cause additional costs and time (which maybe should better be used to improve other things ) And V11 projects could be opened and edited in V12. RangO 6. V12 not have Safety => In my opinion (just) a matter of Time. So, at least I don't want to tell you that everything is fine, but I don't think that the TIA Portal is so bad. I found the answer funny.... very funny .... guys ..... you wrote 8GB of software that wastes a lot of time. and tell me that there is no backward compatibility ... Perhaps you would need for an examination of conscience BUT HAVE YOU SEEN THE SOFTWARE OF COMPETITOR? Siemens I want to wake up from hibernation.... hurry up do not you stay at the top forever compare the market share now and 15 year ago.......

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6/18/2013 7:17 PM	Rate (5)
ELfan Advanced Member Joined: 2/13/2008 Last visit: 2/2/2021 Posts: 40 Rating: (12)	Unusable is being kind! - I have seen 45min safety compiles with a nice little portal crash at the end. - Programs that wont let you monitor with no explanation of why or how to correct. - Snapshot to start values will break large DB's with structs. This leaves absolutely noway to save online data. when I say break I mean break. The copy will put float values in bools"True" in floats etc. you will have to go fix all of these manually before the DB will compile. I had a DB that had 500+ errors after a snapshot to start values click.The good news is since you have made a change you will be required to download this DB even though you cant save the online values. oh you can try to not download it but everytime you make a change it will be listed in the download and sooner or later it will get loaded. - online diagnostics is impossible in my project all io devices say unreachable all the time!!! - modal windows popping up in the background. - undo button stays greyed out most of the time - search and replace is barely usable. if you hit replace all with direction down it wraps anyway. so only choice is to repeatedly hit the replace button - cross reference doesnt work properly. be careful here it will LIE to you! - phantom program changes on download. The compiler thinks programs have changed that havent. compile again and all is ok. be careful here it will sometime place a DB in the download and since Siemens has no idea how to save data to offline you will be setting a DB back to start values. - safety administration will go from consistent to inconsitent for absolutely no reason. - if you turn on system diagnostics with a fairly large project expect 15+ min hardware compiles - project size is completely ridiculous. I believe this is due to the fact that we are all alpha testing this software for Siemens. So they are storing tons of debug info in our projects. I have a project that is 3.5GIG!!! GIG not MEG - no auto save feature for a software that if you are lucky will crash 4 times daily. unbelievable that someone has their head that far in the sand. - phantom errors in programs. I have had to CTRL A CTRL Ccreate a new FB or FC then CTRLV and all is fine. Identical(copied and pasted)code one block will compile the other one wont. - Im sure i have left out lots too but just a few of my observations. I was around with Step7 V2.1 (the BSOD version) I can honestly say this Portal fiasco is much worse. Im not sure Siemens will recover from this. All the eggs in one basket and a big ole AB meatball crushing it!

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6/20/2013 1:48 PM	Rate (0)
AutoGen_405229 Experienced Member Joined: 2/18/2013 Last visit: 8/31/2017 Posts: 102 Rating: (20)	RangO 6. V12 not have Safety ELfan Unusable is being kind! - I have seen 45min safety compiles with a nice little portal crash at the end. I wonder which version are you referring to?

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6/20/2013 5:05 PM	Rate (5)
ELfan Advanced Member Joined: 2/13/2008 Last visit: 2/2/2021 Posts: 40 Rating: (12)	AutoGen Apologies that is V11. So I suppose someone will wave a magic wand with V12 SP1 and all will be fixed. You and I both know that wont happen. - Im not just bashing on Siemens but like others I dont see a fix for these issues anytime soon. - Prove me wrong Siemens make a liar out of me! Release a version thats blazing fast and doesnt crash. As others have stated the PC hardware doesnt help the speed issues so what are we the users to do. Like others I have bought a PC specifically to run this software. 16GB of ram no other software on this computer except portal. Portal barely taxes the CPU uses hardlyany of the resources availble on the PC and runs so slow it is painful (V11, V12 pick your poison) - The way I see it the problem is all of these releases coincide with new hardware like 1200 or 1500 and now we are going to get a new release ahead of 1500F. Thats great but it seems no one is working on fixing the real problems with portal. Someone needs to realize the focus should be on speed and stability and unitl that is corrected all feature additions and new hardware releases should be halted. I know they wont do this but it is what should happen. - my comments were from actual experience and were not exaggerated this software is not a commercial product. It should not be "sold" it should be given away to those who understand the issues and are willing or have the time to test it for Siemens. I would say thats just my two cents worth but i dont appear to be rowing that boat alone. - As i have said before anyone who thinks this software is acceptable commercially has not used it on a project with any size. There are absolutely fundamental problems with this software that prevent it from being used commercially. From my previous post one such issue is the inability to save data to offline. The only mechanism we have for this is snapshot and snapshot doesnt work on large structured DBs. When I say it doesnt work I started a service request and support group repeated my error and I was told that the issue would be fixed in a future release. Now Im not talking about some quircky thing Im trying to do or some minor issue where there is a workaround. There is setup data in a PLC that I cant save! 70+ Sinamics drives each having scaling data and limit data that have been entered through either an HMI or watch table. So here is my situation Siemens will not fix this in the current version but in some future release. When that future release comes out and the program is up converted it is almost guarteed this will cause a recompile of the entire program which in turn requires a full download. A download back to start values. Even if I decided to bite off manual transfer of the data values to the offline DB there will surely be human error in the over 4000 registers that need to be saved. Is this acceptable for a commercial piece of software? If microsoft word would only allow you to save a document that was less than 50 pages would you pay for it. would you consider that a complete product!

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6/20/2013 6:14 PM	Rate (1)
AutoGen_405229 Experienced Member Joined: 2/18/2013 Last visit: 8/31/2017 Posts: 102 Rating: (20)	If you are using V11 I'm still wondering what you meant by"safety compiles", because I thought the first version which will support safety will be V12 SP1. Maybeyou canexplainwhat you meant with "safety compiles".

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6/20/2013 6:28 PM	Rate (0)
ELfan Advanced Member Joined: 2/13/2008 Last visit: 2/2/2021 Posts: 40 Rating: (12)	V11 Safety Advanced has been released for sometime. I have some projects with safety and some without. so I have to bounce back and forth between V11 and V12 Honestly V12 isnt much better than V11 most of the really big issues still persist. Also I should say all of these projects are 300/400 not the new 1500. For all i know the software works perfectly with that hardware.

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6/21/2013 9:49 AM	Rate (0)
AutoGen_405229 Experienced Member Joined: 2/18/2013 Last visit: 8/31/2017 Posts: 102 Rating: (20)	ELfan Also I should say all of these projects are 300/400 not the new 1500. For all i know the software works perfectly with that hardware. O.K., thx, up to now I just used the combination V12 and 1500

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6/29/2013 8:06 PM	Rate (0)
Slack Posts: 30 Rating: (0)	This thread is a good read. I have come to regard TIA portal with some trepidation.
Slack Posts: 30 Rating: (0)
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6/30/2013 2:40 AM	Rate (0)
Ton Verra Gold Member Joined: 4/20/2007 Last visit: 1/29/2021 Posts: 705 Rating: (37)	I have been working with the 300 series in step7 and like it, mostly. Seems straight forward. Been experimenting with Tia and don't like the feel of it so far. My biggest complaint so far, I don't get why I can't use my STL from my 300 project in a 1200 project. But then again, I haven't been working much with Tia yet..

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7/7/2013 5:18 PM	Rate (0)
holm Member Joined: 10/2/2008 Last visit: 8/21/2019 Posts: 3 Rating: (0)	I would not dream of doing a S7-3x or 4xx in TIA,,, it's ***!!!!

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7/8/2013 5:08 PM	Rate (0)
desmul24 Posts: 378 Rating: (67)	RangO Hi, i work in the automation market sice 1994 i work with many software but NEVER i see a big f** sh* like TIA portal is completely unusable. I love siemens PLC. their functionality are excellent. The programming disastrous. I want to tell you with my post what MUST absolutely be improved. 1. latency - All software sleep i work like a sloth. 2 On-line: why i need 1 minuts before go on/line? (with ethernet cable)? 3. Multy Language -> import/export crash every time. Unbelive latency in manual editation 4. All keyboard shortcuts changed respect Step7 5. V12 not compatible with V11 6. V12 not have Safety 7. Hi RangO, I agree with your points. My guess for the reason is that may be they are starting to implement a totaly new aproach of programming. Since you are in automation from 1994 (by the way you have a lot of experiance! respect) you can recall how many programmers are complaining about S5-Windows when siemens had transition from S5-DOS. Be patient siemens is a well known in "continual improvement", I am sure of that the next version will be much better than V11 and V12. Regards
desmul24 Posts: 378 Rating: (67)
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7/8/2013 6:13 PM	Rate (0)
Hit_Formula Experienced Member Joined: 2/20/2010 Last visit: 4/13/2021 Posts: 104 Rating: (7)	In my opinion software developer has used 42inch screen to create this. Because its too much toolbar and menus are opened together and working place was reduced. One thing is very good in that from this software we can check particular one instant of FB. Have any body marked it?

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7/8/2013 7:12 PM	Rate (2)
AMAZINGAHMED Gold Member Joined: 8/27/2006 Last visit: 4/11/2021 Posts: 712 Rating: (86)	I have used TIA portal V11 ONCEthen uninstalled it It was very slow unusable unstable piece of amature-programmed software. I was doing a service for a customer and it took all day without success. What a wasted time. I don't think I'm going to try it again before 2014, maybe it will become a more mature product. It will be a must in the future to use TIA portal, but I won't use it now.
	The more you know, The more you know that you don't know
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7/8/2013 7:34 PM	Rate (0)
IBN-Service Posts: 8946 Rating: (989)	AMAZINGAHMED ...It will be a must in the future to use TIA portal, but I won't use it now. 100% correct. But if you working with 1200, you must use it already today...
IBN-Service Posts: 8946 Rating: (989)
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7/8/2013 8:45 PM	Rate (0)
Bofely Bronze Member Joined: 8/3/2012 Last visit: 12/31/2020 Posts: 123 Rating: (5)	For S7-1500 PLC and Comfort Panels HMI too! The end of production for Multi Panels is planned for October 1, 2014.

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7/8/2013 8:48 PM	Rate (0)
AMAZINGAHMED Gold Member Joined: 8/27/2006 Last visit: 4/11/2021 Posts: 712 Rating: (86)	IBN-Service AMAZINGAHMED ...It will be a must in the future to use TIA portal, but I won't use it now. 100% correct. But if you working with 1200, you must use it already today... I'm trying to avoid it
	The more you know, The more you know that you don't know
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