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Complete download necessary after minor modifications

Created by: Atymo at: 9/17/2014 1:29 PM (9 Replies)

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9/17/2014 1:29 PM	Rate (0)
Atymo Regular Member Joined: 5/20/2014 Last visit: 8/28/2025 Posts: 9 Rating: (0)	I use for a projecta S7-312 CPUin combination with TIA Portal V13 When I only make small changes I often have to download the entire program while the modification affects only a very small part of the program. The PLCalso have to go toSTOP and DB's are initialized It happens for example if I add something in a global DB. This is strange because the DB is constructed as a non-optimized DB (Traditional Step7) and I always add variables to the end of the DB. That would mean that it not affectsthe rest of the program, but after compile the PLC the entire program online and offline differences. Does anyone know this problem and perhaps have a solution because this is a big problem for this machine to go into stop and being initialized each time.
	Henfried de Lange Atymo Besturingstechniek www.atymo.nl
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9/17/2014 2:48 PM	Rate (1)
0_Einstein Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 7/7/2010 Last visit: 12/29/2025 Posts: 16333 Rating: (2520)	Atymo I use for a projecta S7-312 CPUin combination with TIA Portal V13 When I only make small changes I often have to download the entire program while the modification affects only a very small part of the program. The PLCalso have to go toSTOP and DB's are initialized It happens for example if I add something in a global DB. This is strange because the DB is constructed as a non-optimized DB (Traditional Step7) and I always add variables to the end of the DB. That would mean that it not affectsthe rest of the program, but after compile the PLC the entire program online and offline differences. Does anyone know this problem and perhaps have a solution because this is a big problem for this machine to go into stop and being initialized each time. If your DB is used by a lot of different blocks, at some point that will show up as a major modification and require stop/restart. If you want to circumvent this, break up your DB into functional blocks that are only used by 1 block (OB/FB/FC). This may result in your program to be less universal but will reduce your stop/restart requirements. Another approach is to use a temporary / NEW DB and include those new additions to the new DB. Since this is NEW, it can be downloaded without requiring restart. When you intend on a major change, you can then move your temporary DB tags to your global DB and update the tags. If you name the DB something very similar to the existing DB name, it will go fast at renaming. For example, existing DB name: Project_DB. Temporary/New DB name: tProject_DB Now when you delete your temp DB, and compile, it will have all the tags that need a new name. Visit the blocks and perform the find/replace all option, or just visit them all and delete the t from the tag name. Yes, I know, but you are workind on a running system. Having a DB used in lots of places will trigger that restart. In some PLCs you can reserve some amount of memory to hold changes without requiring a restart. If your PLC offers that option, look at doubling it to see if that reduces the frequency and need for stop/restart as well, though this is less predictable that keeping track of how many blocks are affected by your changes. I have seen on these forums where people have come up with really clever mechanisms to get around this problem. They might add a bunch of disabled logic, new DBs, and basically all the new code they need, and when ready, they flip a switch that deactivates the original logic and starts running the new logic. This is tricky to pull off, but might be helpful in your case.
	science guy
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9/17/2014 3:06 PM	Rate (0)
Atymo Regular Member Joined: 5/20/2014 Last visit: 8/28/2025 Posts: 9 Rating: (0)	Huggy_d1, Thanks for your response. The DB I am talking about is only used in a few FB's. Not all of them. That is why it is so strange that the whole program is labelled as online/offline difference. The workaround you suggest will probably work, but creating a new DB each time I add a variable will make a dirty kind of software........ that will result in a lot of DB's.... not my kind of work. The other solution you suggest might work. But is not a clean solution either.... Afraid that will create linking problems with my panel at certain moments. The pain in this issue is that I did never have this problem with the old S7. Even not when I did a consistency check. Only the affected FB/FC's have to be downloaded there. It looks like a new "feature" in TIA portal. This is my first S7-300 project in TIA portal, but I never had this problem in earlier projects with S7-1200 Still searching for a solution....
	Last edited by: Atymo at: 9/17/2014 3:10 PM Henfried de Lange Atymo Besturingstechniek www.atymo.nl
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9/17/2014 3:25 PM	Rate (1)
0_Einstein Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 7/7/2010 Last visit: 12/29/2025 Posts: 16333 Rating: (2520)	Atymo Huggy_d1, Thanks for your response. The DB I am talking about is only used in a few FB's. Not all of them. That is why it is so strange that the whole program is labelled as online/offline difference. The workaround you suggest will probably work, but creating a new DB each time I add a variable will make a dirty kind of software........ that will result in a lot of DB's.... not my kind of work. The other solution you suggest might work. But is not a clean solution either.... Afraid that will create linking problems with my panel at certain moments. The pain in this issue is that I did never have this problem with the old S7. Even not when I did a consistency check. Only the affected FB/FC's have to be downloaded there. It looks like a new "feature" in TIA portal. This is my first S7-300 project in TIA portal, but I never had this problem in earlier projects with S7-1200 Still searching for a solution.... If you compile just the changes and download just the changes, it should not always require a restart. Check the documentation to see what triggers the stop/restart and do not exceed it either by rethinking or by downloading in smaller increments - or both!
	science guy
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9/17/2014 3:37 PM	Rate (0)
Atymo Regular Member Joined: 5/20/2014 Last visit: 8/28/2025 Posts: 9 Rating: (0)	The basic problem is not thestop/restart itselfs. The stop /restart and reinitializeis aresult of thecompile that affects the complete software. A compile only changes does not help because TIA portal seesin every program blocka modification. That is the main problem.
	Last edited by: Atymo at: 9/17/2014 3:38 PM Henfried de Lange Atymo Besturingstechniek www.atymo.nl
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9/17/2014 3:49 PM	Rate (1)
0_Einstein Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 7/7/2010 Last visit: 12/29/2025 Posts: 16333 Rating: (2520)	Atymo The basic problem is not thestop/restart itselfs. The stop /restart and reinitializeis aresult of thecompile that affects the complete software. A compile only changes does not help because TIA portal seesin every program blocka modification. That is the main problem. So you have one or more tags in that global db used in every block, or it was sufficient to cause a complete recompile - which is odd as I've never seen that. I have some global DBs that I know have a similar problem that if compiled means I have to restart. I batch update my changes for items in those DBs and only when I have downtime to perform those updates. Something like 70% of the blocks are affected by changes to either of these two global DBs. Luckily these are significant changes. However, to get around it, I have these two DBs set up as absolute addressing and have built in spare bits/bytes/words setup so I can use them without actually renaming them. When I have the downtime, I rename the tags. That rename often results in a minor change and no restart required. SO, I always add plenty of spares to those DBs that might otherwise result in a stop/restart.
	science guy
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9/17/2014 3:59 PM	Rate (0)
Atymo Regular Member Joined: 5/20/2014 Last visit: 8/28/2025 Posts: 9 Rating: (0)	Thanks for response. I think it is odd too... that's why I post it. No offence, but I am not looking for workarounds orsuggestions to prevent this problem. That will not erase the basic problem. Still searching for a solution
	Last edited by: Atymo at: 9/17/2014 4:03 PM Henfried de Lange Atymo Besturingstechniek www.atymo.nl
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9/17/2014 4:06 PM	Rate (1)
0_Einstein Grandmaster-Expert Joined: 7/7/2010 Last visit: 12/29/2025 Posts: 16333 Rating: (2520)	Support Request
	science guy
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9/17/2014 5:38 PM	Rate (0)
Atymo Regular Member Joined: 5/20/2014 Last visit: 8/28/2025 Posts: 9 Rating: (0)	Yep, I am aware of this option. But they ask you to first question it on the forum. Still wondering if I am the only one with this problem.....
	Henfried de Lange Atymo Besturingstechniek www.atymo.nl
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6/8/2015 3:27 PM	Rate (0)
Min_Moderator Posts: 4758 Rating: (122)	New question published by Muqtadir07 is split to a separate thread with the subject How to create tags in Db. Best regards Min_Moderator
Min_Moderator Posts: 4758 Rating: (122)
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